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chas  
#1 Posted : 12 February 2014 14:18:29(UTC)
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chas

Is the Electric Shock Treatment Notice that is often found in plant rooms a legal requirement or just good practice? Would you expect to find one in each plant room (eg boiler rooms and air handling unit rooms) or just electrical intake/distribution plant rooms/cupboards? I cannot find any reference to them, yet people say they must be present in each plant room. Any pointers/references as to what is required would be welcome. Thanks
teh_boy  
#2 Posted : 12 February 2014 14:43:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

Just good practice to the best of my knowledge - out of date ones are an annoyance of mine. Trained and competent first aiders are better than any poster - as is provision of a defib! Ever tried to cook reading a cookery book and cooking at the same time? it all gets a bit too much for me - apply that to trying to save someone's life whilst reading a poster!
jay  
#3 Posted : 12 February 2014 16:00:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

There is only one Health & Safety related statutory poster required,i.e HASAWA what you should know. The one for electric shock gives basic advice on first-aid procedures if someone has an electric shock at work but even the Health & Safety Executive highlights that the poster is not a substitute for effective first-aid training It is aimed at employees working within a number of industries specifically: -electricity supply, generation, transmission and utilisation -electrical testing -electrical applications http://www.hse.gov.uk/pu...lectric-shock-poster.htm .
Frank Hallett  
#4 Posted : 12 February 2014 16:19:27(UTC)
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Frank Hallett

These notices are rarely placed where they would be of greatest use anyway. They also tend to be Ill-lit, often obstructed, and poorly located. In the main, placed there by workplace controllers who think that the notice will absolve them in the event of a contractor being electrocuted and no First-Aider is immediately available. About as much use as a sign that says something like "the key to defibrilator cupboard is kept at Reception" or similar. Frank Hallett
Zimmy  
#5 Posted : 12 February 2014 16:30:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Another case of do we do things to what is 'said in the books or ... do we do what feels the right thing to do. Put the things in every plant room. Given that if someone is working on or near live conductors it is better to have something than nothing. But the only reason to have an electric shock/death is someone don't know what they are doing
Frank Hallett  
#6 Posted : 12 February 2014 17:19:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Frank Hallett

As the original question identifies, the logic that underlays the provision of signs and notices generally is very poorly though through! This is not aimed at you Chas - just the question. If there is an opportunity for someone to be exposed to electric shock then several things should have happened to prevent the need for them to have to read the "What to do" notice. The failure to control and prevent exposure will never be mitigated by the ability to point at the "What to do in the event" notice. If there is a potential for an operative to be electrocuted because it is not practicable to prevent "live working"; then that should have been recognised and addressed before the work commenced. Incidentally, the majority of those to whom this notice is apparently focussed tend to work alone in areas and spaces that are infrequently visited by others - just who is the notice intended to instruct in those cases? Also, if the individual who comes across the electrocuted operative hasn't been sufficiently trained in electrocution and needs to read the notice [can they read; can they read the language of the notice?], why are they able to enter the space where electrocution could [has] occurred? Frank Hallett
Zimmy  
#7 Posted : 12 February 2014 20:07:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

I have worked with a firm who send people out to jobs where: a) one of them was passing himself off as an electrician (the firm had his qualifications but did not realise that he had not finished his time or passed the final exam0 b) his no.2 had no training at all But they could read! I resigned form the H&S post as no one else gave a toss. I old the company that they were in breach of a duty of care. I have now been made redundant.. I wonder why? At least with a sign they have half a fighting chance?
pete48  
#8 Posted : 12 February 2014 21:30:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pete48

The OP asked "Is the Electric Shock Treatment Notice that is often found in plant rooms a legal requirement or just good practice?" A question I asked myself long ago. The only specific requirement for such notices that I ever found referred specifically to work in mines. I can’t find L128 anymore on the HSE books website so I assume it has been withdrawn and/or the Regs updated. However my trusty old copy covers Reg 26 of the EAWR 1989 and states that:. “Where, at any place at a mine, electric arc welding is taking place or electrical energy is being generated, transformed or used at a nominal voltage in excess of 125 volts ac or 250 volts dc, a notice shall be displayed in a form which can be easily read and understood and containing information on the appropriate first-aid treatment for electric shock and details of the emergency action to be taken in the event of electric shock. 1 Notices should be posted in sub-stations, control and switch rooms, engine houses and in reasonable proximity to other places where switchgear and motors are installed. 2 In order to comply with section 2(2)(c) of the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974, the notice used should also include a prohibition on unauthorised persons tampering with electrical equipment and directions on action to be taken in the event of fire or explosion. HSR25 also had a reference at para 223 which said "It may be helpful to place notices or placards giving details of emergency resuscitation procedures in the event of electric shock at those locations where people may be at greater risk of electric shock than most. Such places might include electrical test areas, substations and laboratories but for resuscitation techniques to be effective, those required to exercise them must receive proper training and regular practice. The Health and Safety (First Aid) Regulations 1981 make various requirements for the provision of suitably trained first aiders at places." Thus I concluded that it was adopted as best practice in relevant areas of other workplaces beyond mines. P48 p.s. I am not an electrical bod but I do have first hand experience of very competent electrical staff receiving electrical shocks; even electricians can make mistakes sometimes! Equipment can also fail.
Zimmy  
#9 Posted : 13 February 2014 07:47:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

My reply to the PS Pete. You gave the answer that says it all. You are not electrical. Ask them why they had a shock.. the answer will always be... I didn't test it for Live. I didn't isolate. I didn't 'glove-up'.. I didn't...
Zimmy  
#10 Posted : 13 February 2014 08:48:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

That sounded harsh Pete.. not meant to be
pete48  
#11 Posted : 13 February 2014 09:16:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pete48

No worries. Just making the point that mistakes happen even if you are the most qualified experienced person.Thus the significant precautions to which you and other electrical bods often refer are vital but no absolute protection p48
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