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mike52  
#1 Posted : 22 May 2016 17:02:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mike52

I know this has probably been raised several times before., but I am curious about your opinion of the benefits of joining IOSH. Especially as there is no requirement to be a member to be a safety professional. Anyone can offer safety advice without any qualifications. So why does not IOSH push to get professional recognition so only members can offer professional advice. After all you cannot offer medical treatment unless you are registered with the BMA, or a solicitor cannot practice without being a member of their professional bodies. Surely if safety professionals have to be members of IOSH then that could only be could for the industry in general and maybe reduce the number of spurious bans of events as "Health & Safety" Mike
RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 22 May 2016 18:25:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Mike This topic has been raised before in various guises, what you need to remember is that IOSH are not the only industry body in health and safety, albeit the only Chartered institution if you ignore CIEH. The health and safety industry is very diverse. Hence there are many non-IOSH members in our industry doing a great job. As for qualifications, sure anyone can offer advice, but only a fool would engage someone who does not have any H&S qualifications. God forbid IOSH should ever have an exclusive monopoly!
Ian Bell2  
#3 Posted : 22 May 2016 19:27:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

In my experience there is little advantage in IOSH membership. I gave it up years ago, have continued to work in safety engineering with no detriment to my career or job prospects. IOSH membership is never asked for in the type of safety work I do. IOSH membership is much over rated.
stevedm  
#4 Posted : 23 May 2016 08:23:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Feel the same as Ian I have membership but I get no advantages from it. I have come across more people who are competent in safety who do not have IOSH letters after their name than I have those who do.
chris.packham  
#5 Posted : 23 May 2016 08:25:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Being a member of IOSH does not of itself, confer competency in every aspect of occupational health and safety. I work in one particular area.. There are no relevant 'official' qualifications relevant to what I do (prevention of damage to health due to workplace skin exposure). Full membership of IOSH is not relevant as it would require me to learn about aspects of this broad field (with the associated cost in time and money) that are of no professional interest to me. However, with over 30 years of experience and learning in my particular field I believe that I can claim to be competent in what I do. How would you accommodate someone such as me if membership of IOSH were to be compulsory? As someone else has mentioned there are other organisations such as BOHS, IIRSM active in this field who would almost certainly object were IOSH to try to make itself the sole organisation in health and safety. Chris
WatsonD  
#6 Posted : 23 May 2016 08:31:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

I do think it is important in pretty much all industries that there are recognised standards and accredited bodies. No, it will never be a perfect solution, but it can give peace-of-mind to those who want to engage safety practitioners if they are aware of associations like IOSH. The advantages that you get are a regulatory body providing distinct levels and requiring CPD is carried out to ensure those with membership are up-to-date.
Invictus  
#7 Posted : 23 May 2016 11:18:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

I thought that if you joined and got to CMIOSH you were super competent! or so CMIOSH members keep telling everyone.
David Bannister  
#8 Posted : 23 May 2016 11:33:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

As a consultant it is important to me to be able to demonstrate to clients and prospects that I am part of a professional body, have achieved a certain level of membership and undertake CPD to keep my knowledge and skill levels at an adequate level. I believe that my clients are sufficiently discerning to understand what IOSH membership infers, particularly when i tell them! This forum and the members-only section is something I value highly. Working is isolation can be lonely but the body of experience and knowledge on here can usually provide answers to any question - the trick is sorting out those answers that are really useful and which are to be disregarded. Long time users will have formed their own opinions on who to trust. I choose not to partake in local branch activities but for many that aspect of membership will be very valuable.
Ian Bell2  
#9 Posted : 23 May 2016 12:33:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

David Bannister wrote:
As a consultant it is important to me to be able to demonstrate to clients and prospects that I am part of a professional body.. (1) .... - the trick is sorting out those answers that are really useful and which are to be disregarded. Long time users will have formed their own opinions on who to trust. (2)
(1). The trouble with IOSH training courses is that there are huge technical gaps, especially in my area of engineering safety - so IOSH membership does not make a competent safety engineer/adviser. Suppose you get asked something that IOSH courses haven't covered, what do you do? Not answer the question? Post a question on this forum? Ask an engineer? IOSH isn't much use for process safety etc, yet how often do we seem IOSH/occupational safety advisers referring to process safety incidents e.g. Buncefield. Unless the training modules have changed IOSH doesn't cover some of the process risk assessment techniques that might have prevented this accident. From my IOSH days there was a basic mention of HAZOP - but no training on how to do them. SIL/LOPA risk assessments/determination not even mentioned in my IOSH training. (2) Go on name the forum users you consider to give good advice, I dare you...
pl53  
#10 Posted : 23 May 2016 12:35:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pl53

Comparing someone who has a job in health and safety to doctors or solicitors is totally ridiculous. The level of dedication and study required to become medically qualified or qualified to practice law is far and away greater and more onerous than the 12 -18 months required to pass the NEBOSH diploma. Members of IOSH might think of it as a "professional" body and may call themselves health and safety "professionals" but they aren't in the same league as those examples mentioned. It's a job and that's all it is.
bigpub  
#11 Posted : 23 May 2016 12:52:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bigpub

Most of the CMIOSH people I have come across are very good at quoting regs but poor at the actual day to day understanding of processes. All brains and no common sense. However, I am sure there are others who are brilliant at both.
stonecold  
#12 Posted : 23 May 2016 13:06:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

You get a nice certificate which looks good in a decent frame. :)
Graham Bullough  
#13 Posted : 23 May 2016 13:10:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

David Bannister makes some very valid points at #8 about the IOSH forums "....the body of experience and knowledge on here can usually provide answers to any question - the trick is sorting out those answers that are really useful and which are to be disregarded. Long time users will have formed their own opinions on who to trust." Such points prompt me to repeat pleas I've made in the past for the forums to include a standard short disclaimer that though the forum is hosted by IOSH, postings on it are not necessarily representative of IOSH or its members and that information, etc., posted should not be relied upon for making decisions. In its early years the public discussion forum (was it called IOSH Chat ?) had such a disclaimer on it and then it disappeared when the format was changed. As David rightly suggests, long time users will have decided which posters and postings to trust. However, newcomers to the forums are less likely to have this ability - hence the plea for a disclaimer. It might also help if journalists find the public forums and think about quoting some of what they find as being "from H&S experts" ! :-( Graham B p.s. The anti-spam image which I have to type before submitting this posting is qTuAT - An example of how the automatic image generator occasionally comes up with some vulgar sounding acronyms! :-(
walker  
#14 Posted : 23 May 2016 13:19:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Graham Bullough wrote:
p.s. The anti-spam image which I have to type before submitting this posting is qTuAT - An example of how the automatic image generator occasionally comes up with some vulgar sounding acronyms! :-(
No it doesn't, you just have a filthy mind!
walker  
#15 Posted : 23 May 2016 13:25:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Invictus wrote:
I thought that if you joined and got to CMIOSH you were super competent! or so CMIOSH members keep telling everyone.
Some of us are ;-) A competent person is someone who knows their limitations
chris42  
#16 Posted : 23 May 2016 13:26:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Being in IOSH helps when job hunting, It looks like it is often a criteria to thin out candidates as it is specified in a lot of adverts. Unless you are in a specialist field where it seems less of an issue. Agree with the above about long time users and perhaps there should be a like / dislike vote option against comments to help new users and inform those who make poor posts what others think. They can then re evaluate if they want to continue to try and contribute. I'll get my coat Chris
David Bannister  
#17 Posted : 23 May 2016 13:39:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Ian Bell2 wrote:
(1). The trouble with IOSH training courses is that there are huge technical gaps, especially in my area of engineering safety - so IOSH membership does not make a competent safety engineer/adviser. Suppose you get asked something that IOSH courses haven't covered, what do you do? Not answer the question? Post a question on this forum? Ask an engineer? IOSH isn't much use for process safety etc, yet how often do we seem IOSH/occupational safety advisers referring to process safety incidents e.g. Buncefield. Unless the training modules have changed IOSH doesn't cover some of the process risk assessment techniques that might have prevented this accident. From my IOSH days there was a basic mention of HAZOP - but no training on how to do them. SIL/LOPA risk assessments/determination not even mentioned in my IOSH training. (2) Go on name the forum users you consider to give good advice, I dare you...
(1) I know my limitations and strengths. If I don't know an answer I will find someone who does - possibly a chemical engineer, possibly an occ. hygienist, possibly an ergonomist, possibly a scientist, possibly a mech or elec engineer etc. (2) Find some other mug to reel in!
Graham Bullough  
#18 Posted : 23 May 2016 14:16:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

walker In response to your comment "No it doesn't, you just have a filthy mind!" at #14, it could be argued that you have a similar mind. The rationale for this is 'it takes one to know one' !!! :-) Also, I discovered some years ago that when the vulgar word* is spelt correctly and extended with 'ting', it means to hit or thump someone. Moreover, believe it or not, I only became aware of this variation of the word, possibly a Lancashire/regional one, some years ago during a casual conversation with several IOSH members at a local network meeting. For such enlightenment (even though it's extremely trivial), perhaps I should be grateful for membership of IOSH! :-) Graham B The vulgar word wasn't cited at * simply because the forum censor system would almost certainly have spotted and replaced it with "(expletive deleted)".
jwk  
#19 Posted : 23 May 2016 14:36:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Graham, You'll be pleased to know that that particular use of the vulgar word is alive and well here in Yorkshire, definitely not just a Lancashire thing, John
walker  
#20 Posted : 23 May 2016 15:16:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Graham Bullough wrote:
it could be argued that you have a similar mind.
Guilty as charged ;-) The other word you mention is used at least this far south, certainly very common just after closing time. Off at a slight tangent: I was in BnQ the other week and a bloke in orange came up to me and asked if I wanted decking. Fortunately, I got the first punch in.
chris.packham  
#21 Posted : 23 May 2016 15:46:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Re competency . . . As Mark Twain is reputed to have said: "It isn't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so!" Or to put it slightly differently: "The danger arises when you don't know that you don't know" Isn't this the main problem with competency? Chris
chris42  
#22 Posted : 23 May 2016 17:03:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

You could join just to be part of something bigger! Without its members IOSH would no longer exist. History is full of groups of like minded or those in like profession's banding together to be a more noticeable voice. There is a lot who don't seem to think H&S is even a profession, so use it or loose it as they say. Are we better off together or on our own seems to be the question of the day. Yes I know rose tinted specs accidentally put on again. Chris
Invictus  
#23 Posted : 24 May 2016 07:45:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

How is it we appear to be going around in circles, we seem to have the same postings all the time, getting boring!
WatsonD  
#24 Posted : 24 May 2016 08:31:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

Invictus wrote:
How is it we appear to be going around in circles, we seem to have the same postings all the time, getting boring!
Be the change, Invictus!
Invictus  
#25 Posted : 24 May 2016 08:39:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

WatsonD wrote:
Invictus wrote:
How is it we appear to be going around in circles, we seem to have the same postings all the time, getting boring!
Be the change, Invictus!
In life, well I am in my fifties!
hilary  
#26 Posted : 24 May 2016 10:35:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

Mike52 For me, being a CMIOSH lends authority to what I do. I work in an engineering/manufacturing plant and have done so for 20+ years. Even today, in these enlightened times of equality, a few people still expect that the H&S bod will be a man and indeed, I had a quick look at the respondents to this post and I figured that they were all male (sorry if I missed any women back there). You can see, therefore, that for me to be taken seriously, the Chartered Membership is a positive advantage as it lets everyone know, as soon as I hand over my business card, that if they want to discuss H&S then I am the bod to discuss it with, no arguments.
Invictus  
#27 Posted : 24 May 2016 10:38:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

hilary wrote:
Mike52 For me, being a CMIOSH lends authority to what I do. I work in an engineering/manufacturing plant and have done so for 20+ years. Even today, in these enlightened times of equality, a few people still expect that the H&S bod will be a man and indeed, I had a quick look at the respondents to this post and I figured that they were all male (sorry if I missed any women back there). You can see, therefore, that for me to be taken seriously, the Chartered Membership is a positive advantage as it lets everyone know, as soon as I hand over my business card, that if they want to discuss H&S then I am the bod to discuss it with, no arguments.
You assume so much, some might use a mans name so they are taken seriously!
biker1  
#28 Posted : 24 May 2016 12:11:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Ian Bell2 wrote:
In my experience there is little advantage in IOSH membership. I gave it up years ago, have continued to work in safety engineering with no detriment to my career or job prospects. IOSH membership is never asked for in the type of safety work I do. IOSH membership is much over rated.
And yet you post on IOSH forums? Curious.
Graham Bullough  
#29 Posted : 24 May 2016 12:27:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

hilary - As some men have Hilary as a first name (e.g. Hilary Benn MP, Shadow Foreign Secretary), it's just possible that some people see your name but still assume you are a bloke until they meet you! :-) While on this subject, it seems that some women but no men have the variant spelling Hillary (e.g. Hillary Clinton in the USA) akin to the surname of famous mountaineer the late (i.e. deceased rather than unpunctual) Sir Edmund Hillary from New Zealand! Graham B
Gunner1  
#30 Posted : 24 May 2016 12:28:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gunner1

Owing to personal circumstances I had to let my CMIOSH membership lapse. I requested if could renew but got a no however was informed could join again as new member! After many years of membership and IOSH already being aware of my status / qualifications etc. declined the offer.
Ian Bell2  
#31 Posted : 24 May 2016 12:28:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

Its is not necessary to be a signed up member to work in some form of safety related job or to be interested in the topic. I just refuse to pay IOSH fees for no advantage or useful return for my money.
ptaylor14  
#32 Posted : 25 May 2016 14:56:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ptaylor14

Ian Bell2 wrote:
In my experience there is little advantage in IOSH membership. I gave it up years ago, have continued to work in safety engineering with no detriment to my career or job prospects. IOSH membership is never asked for in the type of safety work I do. IOSH membership is much over rated.
agree
ptaylor14  
#33 Posted : 25 May 2016 15:03:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ptaylor14

Ian Bell2 wrote:
Its is not necessary to be a signed up member to work in some form of safety related job or to be interested in the topic. I just refuse to pay IOSH fees for no advantage or useful return for my money.
Agree, wouldnt be so bad if they brought back the free adverting of jobs, but IOSH is just another trough to put snouts in. Did you get your invitation to the singapore branch dinner, tux required ?!?!!???
WatsonD  
#34 Posted : 25 May 2016 15:24:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

ptaylor14 wrote:
Ian Bell2 wrote:
Its is not necessary to be a signed up member to work in some form of safety related job or to be interested in the topic. I just refuse to pay IOSH fees for no advantage or useful return for my money.
Agree, wouldnt be so bad if they brought back the free adverting of jobs, but IOSH is just another trough to put snouts in. Did you get your invitation to the singapore branch dinner, tux required ?!?!!???
I refer you to biker1 comment at #28
Graham Bullough  
#35 Posted : 29 May 2016 16:14:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

For at least some IOSH members the replies to the question "What benefit do we get from being members of IOSH?" could be summarised as 'quite a bit or even quite a lot'; in a way, this parallels the gist of the various positive answers given to the question "What have the Romans ever done for us?" in the Monty Python film "Life of Brian"!! One benefit, though not an exclusive one, is receiving/upgrading useful information/knowledge and reading/hearing about good ideas and solutions to problems. For example, those of us who can get to meetings held by geographical and/or specialist entities within the IOSH network benefit from presentations about diverse topics given by speakers at such meetings. Though not every topic covered will be of particular use/interest to each of us, some at least will be. Those who think otherwise should consider making suggestions to the committee members of branches, sections, districts and groups regarding particular topics and/or speakers they would like them to consider. Also, the wealth of knowledge and expertise held by some IOSH members about some topics is certainly worth sharing with other members at meetings. Therefore, if you can think of such a member, why not nominate them? Also, if you consider yourself to have knowledge and expertise worth sharing, why not offer to give a presentation? For those with little previous experience of giving presentations, doing so at IOSH meetings can be a good opportunity to develop experience and confidence in presenting. (Such opportunities could be included under 'skills' when maintaining CPD.) Those attending meetings are generally more interested in what speakers have to share with them than about their prowess or otherwise as a speaker. It might be appropriate for those who are new or inexperienced to tell audiences of this when starting their presentations. They should also bear in mind that a fair number of their audience probably dread the prospect of doing any public speaking themselves. Therefore, such speakers would be already one big step ahead of them! Also, for those who don't have enough material and/or confidence for a full presentation at a meeting, committee members and prospective speakers should consider partial presentations with two or even three for one meeting. Bearing in mind that communicating effectively to others is usually an essential element of being a H&S professional (e.g. toolbox talks, conducting training sessions, etc.) committee members could consider arranging extra events, whether as single day events or a series of shorter sessions, to help those who fear the prospect of public speaking. Also, practice and confidence in public speaking and giving presentations for work situations are highly transferable skills and therefore can be of great benefit for various situations away from work, e.g. speeches at weddings and presentations to local clubs and societies. More to follow in due course....... Graham B
johnmc  
#36 Posted : 29 May 2016 20:22:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
johnmc

I joined IOSH for a number of reasons all of which were based on what I thought was important and relevant to me. There is no obligation for anyone to join IOSH or remain a member but it surprising how many people feel the need to post their moans and groans on these forums rather that just cancel their membership or get involved and change things. Just my humble opinion. John Mc
firesafety101  
#37 Posted : 30 May 2016 10:37:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

chris.packham wrote:
Re competency . . . As Mark Twain is reputed to have said: "It isn't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so!" Or to put it slightly differently: "The danger arises when you don't know that you don't know" Isn't this the main problem with competency? Chris
Chris, that is something I say occasionally. You don't know what you don't know. It is very true
Graham Bullough  
#38 Posted : 30 May 2016 23:28:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

fs101 - Thanks for echoing Chris Packham's posting at #21 as it reminded me to express thanks to Chris for making at least some of us, myself included, aware of Mark Twain's reported assertion about knowing and not knowing. It's more concise than the one uttered in 2002 by another American, Donald Rumsfeld, while he was US Secretary of Defense: "....as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know. " Graham B :-)
IanDakin  
#39 Posted : 31 May 2016 10:32:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
IanDakin

Hi I have issues with IOSH. I now use the BSC for a lot of things I used to use IOSH for. However, there is no other general safety membership organization in the UK that gives you and the public a measure of a safety professionals levels of technical and practical knowledge and experience through the different levels of membership. And once you are a Chartered Member, you have a duty to keep up to date and to only advise in areas and to levels that you are competent in. You also have to put the profession and H&S above other interests. So your Charter means that if there is a conflict of interest, for example with your business or employer, then you must take a professional stance. Don't forget the other benefits as well - magazines and technical bulletins, free publications, technical help line, etc. And this forum.
WatsonD  
#40 Posted : 31 May 2016 11:10:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

johnmc wrote:
I joined IOSH for a number of reasons all of which were based on what I thought was important and relevant to me. There is no obligation for anyone to join IOSH or remain a member but it surprising how many people feel the need to post their moans and groans on these forums rather that just cancel their membership or get involved and change things. Just my humble opinion. John Mc
Amen to that.
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