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oliver.kitch  
#1 Posted : 27 June 2016 10:46:36(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
oliver.kitch

Hello All Apologies if this is not the correct place to ask this question as I am relatively new to the IOSH membership and how it operates. My Query is that I used to work for a Railway engineering company and was deducted a full wage with an additional £400 being requested to be paid immediately. the monies were "owed" due to claiming back holiday that were taken that had not been accrued and training costs that were within a 2 year limit. My argument is that yes I appreciate that monies where owed however the training that was undertaken was a necessity for my role, I am confused as the health at safety act work act states employees shouldn't be made to pay for training or is this whilst being employed? also if this is the case does it mean I can charge them for paying for my own training in parts that was a necessity for the role? On top of that the money was demanded up front with no option of a tiered repayment schedule (being relatively green to the role my salary/mortgage and dependents could not cover that and the wage deducted all in one month) I have gone to HSE but only get a generic leaflet response. I would appreciate any help you could send my way If this reads confusing I apologise. Kind Regards Ollie
walker  
#2 Posted : 27 June 2016 11:03:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Ollie, They can't claw back money without your consent. someone will be along to quote the law that governs this. Bite the bullet over the holidays ...in the end they are entitled even if they are a bit harsh in the lack of time to pay it back. BUT.........tell them they cannot take the safety training money, quote the reg. Suggest that HR might have confused H&S training with other types of training and that they review accordingly. Imply you will seek legal advice if they do not agree.
HSSnail  
#3 Posted : 27 June 2016 11:47:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Oliver I think you need to be clear about the training being "necessity for your role". If it was say training on operating some new equipment safely than I would agree that HSAWA means they cannot charge you. However if it was a IOSH/NEBOSH or similar training to further your carrier the case may not be so clear cut. And as for you charging them for training you had funded, I don't think that would be possible. This is one for a solicitor I would say. Are you a member of a trade union or have you tried citizens advice? From memory I think unlawful deductions are dealt with by an employment tribunal.
Zyggy  
#4 Posted : 27 June 2016 15:30:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zyggy

Ollie, I concur with the previous posters that deductions cannot be made without your written consent before they actually make them - Deduction from Wages (Limitation) Regs 2014. However, as already stated, employees in many industries are required to sign up to a refund if they leave within a specified period, & if they do, then this is deemed as consent. This can be a grey area in many cases, so please get some advice - the CAB are usually very good as a starting point. Good luck!
gerrysharpe  
#5 Posted : 27 June 2016 16:48:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
gerrysharpe

As i work for myself its a bit different but i recently paid for some courses and the company i'm working for at the moment allowed me to do the course in work time which helps me out no end. From your reply i take it you was employed by a Railway engineering company and i'm guessing your training had something along the lines of having to do it to keep your job. It would appear you have left now and the company is after moneys you owe from your extra Holidays and now from your Training? Now from personal experience course which are Railway related and things like your Track certificate and Sentinel Card are pretty expensive for a company to just splash out, One company i know has a clause in its contract of employment to say that if you leave within a year of taking your training you need to reimburse the company for the cost pf the training. This is to stop applicants passing the course and then going off to work elsewhere for more money already qualified. Can i ask Ollie how long ago did you do the course and when did you leave?
bigpub  
#6 Posted : 28 June 2016 08:42:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bigpub

Very simply, get in writing .'What am I paying the money for?' I bet you don't receive an answer. This happened to me a while ago
ptaylor14  
#7 Posted : 29 June 2016 11:02:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ptaylor14

oliver.kitch wrote:
Hello All Apologies if this is not the correct place to ask this question as I am relatively new to the IOSH membership and how it operates. My Query is that I used to work for a Railway engineering company and was deducted a full wage with an additional £400 being requested to be paid immediately. the monies were "owed" due to claiming back holiday that were taken that had not been accrued and training costs that were within a 2 year limit. My argument is that yes I appreciate that monies where owed however the training that was undertaken was a necessity for my role, I am confused as the health at safety act work act states employees shouldn't be made to pay for training or is this whilst being employed? also if this is the case does it mean I can charge them for paying for my own training in parts that was a necessity for the role? On top of that the money was demanded up front with no option of a tiered repayment schedule (being relatively green to the role my salary/mortgage and dependents could not cover that and the wage deducted all in one month) I have gone to HSE but only get a generic leaflet response. I would appreciate any help you could send my way If this reads confusing I apologise. Kind Regards Ollie
Sect 13 employment rights act applies, contact ACAS start proceedings (will cost nothing at this point) as soon as employer gets ACAS documentation they will fold. Its an unlawful deduction of salary.
oliver.kitch  
#8 Posted : 06 July 2016 14:06:41(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
oliver.kitch

Thank you everyone for your assistance I took part on the courses a year ago so the timescale is very grey. I had a further look in to it and it was for no benefit (career/salary wise) and was needed to do the job PTS and COSS (however the PTS is reinstated when you do the COSS) they charged me for it separately. I have responded to them and agreed a price repayment but of a reasonable amount/timescale so is now a waiting game I will keep in mind the unlawful deduction of salary if they come back with an unreasonable figure. Thanks again for your help Ollie
RayRapp  
#9 Posted : 07 July 2016 09:56:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Oliver Having worked in the railway industry until recently I can say with some confidence that training/qualification for PTS/COSS you should not be charged for because it is essential for your role. Are you employed directly by the company or via an agency? Ray
gerrysharpe  
#10 Posted : 07 July 2016 10:12:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
gerrysharpe

I knew the training would be rail related and you need to ask if employed wat your company stance is on Training, Some companies i have seen will spend £1000's on training and all they ask is that you remain in service for a year to 18 months afterwards. if you leave before that time then you will be charged for the training as the training is transferable when you move to another company. So if your employed what did your contract of employment say, if your working for an agency then that might be a different ball game altogether, they will most definitely expect you to pay it back if you leave shortly afterwards. As i said before they do this to stop people training for free and moving off to a new job on more money already having done the training. you need to look at it from a business point of view they won't be around for long if they did this all the time, so check those contracts and see what you agreed to do when you signed up.
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