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zoltangera  
#1 Posted : 09 November 2011 10:32:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
zoltangera

I need to refresh our operatives with UKATA (client stipulated) Non-Licensed Asbestos Training.
All our operatives have received UKATA asbestos awareness training but it seems that the toolbox refresher talk that I gave in July (1 year after the original training) was not sufficient as UKATA changed the rules as this refresher training can now only be done by a UKATA member!

This has now made all operatives out of date with asbestos awareness certificates!
The non licensed certificates run out in December and I cant seem to find UKATA courses entitled non-licensed work with asbestos (Is this down to the imminent CAR changes? If so what shall I do?)
RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 09 November 2011 10:42:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

There was a thread on this same subject only a couple of weeks or so ago. The general consensus if I remember correctly was that a TBT is sufficient as long are there are no changes to the work methods/ equipment and those operatives would be classified as low risk ie essentially coming into contact with non-licensed ACMs. Alternatively you could give them a short training session annually based on topics identified in reg 10 of CAR.
zoltangera  
#3 Posted : 09 November 2011 10:56:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
zoltangera

RayRapp wrote:
There was a thread on this same subject only a couple of weeks or so ago. The general consensus if I remember correctly was that a TBT is sufficient as long are there are no changes to the work methods/ equipment and those operatives would be classified as low risk ie essentially coming into contact with non-licensed ACMs. Alternatively you could give them a short training session annually based on topics identified in reg 10 of CAR.


UKATA Quote

"UKATA uphold the validity of UKATA training certificates issued as a consequence of refresher training in the intervening year can only be maintained if the training in the intervening year is undertaken by a UKATA member"

So I read this as saying; I am not a UKATA member so I cannot do the refresher training...hence the certificates are now 'out of date'?
Ron Hunter  
#4 Posted : 09 November 2011 11:09:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

The broad scope allowed in the context of Reg 10 for "awareness" refresher shouldn't be confused with the necessarily more rigorous & practical refresher requirements for non-licensed task competencies.

UKATA have recently clarified their stance on "Awareness" refresher renewals.
If your operatives have in-date certificates for non-licensed competency then the requirement for certificated general "awareness" training is surely essentially redundant?

Not knowing the current position of the various training bodies, I can only suggest that a refresh period of 3 years for formal training would be generally applicable for the non-licensed task people?

You are obviously bound by client requirments here, but I wonder if your client is entirely up-to-date with the current UKATA stance, or is aware that annual UKATA 'refresh' of awareness training simply isn't necessary or indeed advisable?
RayRapp  
#5 Posted : 09 November 2011 11:34:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

The bottom line is that UKATA have a vested interest in providing training, however it is not necessary to go down that route, especially for refresher training which can be done by a competent person in-house. This is the most practical and cost effective option for most companies IMO.
bod212  
#6 Posted : 09 November 2011 12:21:47(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bod212

UKATA are no doubt ensuring that their organisation will carry out as much training as they can. By closing the door to other training providers, no doubt. On the surface I for one do not have a problem with this as, working for a licence holder we are a UKATA member. It is time that 'rogue' training providers were jettisoned anyway. This, however, is of no comfort to an organisation who might only ever need Category A (awareness) training and don't want to use UKATA. And have no aspirations to become a member. CAR 2006 will not specify particular trainers, that's not to say that if you can demonstrate competency and dilligence then you might, just might still be compliant. You have probably read the links but I've attached them anyway. Perception and interpretation spring to mind though...

http://www.ukata.org.uk/...r%20Training%20-%203.pdf

http://www.ukata.org.uk/...-%20accepted%203_6_11%20(amended%206.pdf
horner.d  
#7 Posted : 09 November 2011 17:32:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
horner.d

zoltangera wrote:
I need to refresh our operatives with UKATA (client stipulated) Non-Licensed Asbestos Training.
All our operatives have received UKATA asbestos awareness training but it seems that the toolbox refresher talk that I gave in July (1 year after the original training) was not sufficient as UKATA changed the rules as this refresher training can now only be done by a UKATA member!

This has now made all operatives out of date with asbestos awareness certificates!
The non licensed certificates run out in December and I cant seem to find UKATA courses entitled non-licensed work with asbestos (Is this down to the imminent CAR changes? If so what shall I do?)


MEden380  
#8 Posted : 10 November 2011 09:31:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MEden380

Zoltangera
You have said your staff have received UKATA Asbestos Awareness Training - that is precisely what it is Asbestos Awareness. It is important to understand that this Asbestos Awareness Training does not permit or qualify persons to undertake any form work with or on asbestos.
If your staff are working on non licensed materials they should under go at least Category B training.
jarsmith83  
#9 Posted : 10 November 2011 13:20:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jarsmith83

quote=zoltangera]I need to refresh our operatives with UKATA (client stipulated) Non-Licensed Asbestos Training.
All our operatives have received UKATA asbestos awareness training but it seems that the toolbox refresher talk that I gave in July (1 year after the original training) was not sufficient as UKATA changed the rules as this refresher training can now only be done by a UKATA member!

This has now made all operatives out of date with asbestos awareness certificates!
The non licensed certificates run out in December and I cant seem to find UKATA courses entitled non-licensed work with asbestos (Is this down to the imminent CAR changes? If so what shall I do?)


Are we missing the point here? The client has specified that you follow UKATA requirements on training. UKATA specify "UKATA uphold the validity of UKATA training certificates issued as a consequence of refresher training in the intervening year can only be maintained if the training in the intervening year is undertaken by a UKATA member", so what is the discussion?


From what I can make out, you have a contractual requirement to follow UKATA`s training, which means following their training rules i.e. using a UKATA representative to complete the refresher training. If you do not follow UKATA`s requirements, your training will have lapsed, and your certs no longer valid!


Sorry if I sound blunt but, just feel the discussion is drifting, and not addressing the actual initial question.

boblewis  
#10 Posted : 10 November 2011 14:11:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

We seem to be confusing 2 levels of training here

Training to undertake non licensed work

and

Asbestos Awareness

These two are totally separate and I agree with UKATA that for non licensed work properly set up UKATA or equivalent cours must be followed. For the latter it would be wrong for UKATA to assert their view that they alone can undertake such refresher training. My only caveat here is to be certain that you are competent, in terms of regulation 10, to undertake such training.

As far as CAR 2006 amendments are concerned I think that it may well be that UKATA trainers are holding back until the new category of notifiable non licensed work becomes more defined. It will I understand almost certainly affect many who are currently using the sporadic and low level definition to avoid the use of licensed contractors.

Do rember however that the reason you are using UKATA no licensed training is because a client has required it and you should have tendered sufficient monies to undertake this training. If you have not got such money I think you need to talk to yopur manager and the tendering people in your organisation.

Bob
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