Posted By Bernard Angus Angela, I wish you luck. I too came from the nuclear industry (to local government - what a culture shock !) The trouble with moving into H & S as a starter is that the profession is becoming flooded with people having 'less than practitioner qualifications', like NEBOSH Certificates. Employers lap them up on salaries much lower than yours (or mine)and the whole ethos is undermining the professional practitioner, which is why many health and safety advisers/managers are slotted in so low in organisational structures.This should provoke some action!! B

Posted By Jeremy R. Manderson Angela, Yes I do understand your comments and perhaps your frustration. I am a Canadian HSEQ Specialist with focus in the Oil and Gas industry. The bulk of my experience is international, and has taken me around the world more times than I care to mention. I have also worked with the Well Control & Blowout industry (the Canadian team who led the Kuwaiti oil fires effort - after the gulf war) Comments made by Bernard are understood. I wonder as to the value of the NEBOSH cert., should I take them myself? Why should one pay so much for something that may not provide me with anything other than a UK recognized diploma, and so on. I respect the H&S industry and regard competency, training and accreditation as essential. However one tends to overlook experience. Perhaps the most critical element. Should we find a way to interface certification(s) and experience based training we would solve and/or weed out a lot of the concerns regarding poorly trained HSE personnel whom are in fact ill prepared for the environment that many of our industry sectors operate within. NEBOSH certification is fine, however it should be based upon serious industry background experience. In Canada if one can prove extensive experience, he or she can challenge certain HSE examination – however we also suffer the same fate with new industry personnel banging on doors with a fist full of certificates. In regard to the levels of compensation, well it’s an issue that is quite clear. Safety is not yet taken seriously by many of our colleagues, and executive management (we should include HR and recruiters in this). It is slowly being recognized as not only an integral component of industry, but also a service that requires top-level personnel and experience. Wages should be on par with other professionals, experience should be weighed equally to certification. And employers shall always get what they pay for. Why don’t we create an HSE NGO? and charge the living daylights out of selected industries Salaries for safety management should range from 50.000usd to 80.000usd and up. As a contract specialist one should average between 400usd to 850usd. (This is why I am still freelance). You don’t want to know what the may pay a well control specialist on an active blowout. HSE training for the purpose of developing competent personnel should be based on hands on experience. That said there is an industry within an industry in regards to safety professionals. This comes under the category of specialists. This is and has been my focus for many years. In fact I have just been requested for an HSEQ Audit in the mid east (UK Oil Company) The focus will be on general drilling operations, and in particular Emergency Response, H2S gas and communications. ? (Specialize) I would be interested to hear your thoughts on writing and in particular training, I may well have some feedback and suggestions. Will cc your e mail. Jeremy R. Manderson HSEQ/Canada

Posted By Nick Higginson It never ceases to amaze me the amount of arguments about which type of practitioner to employ i.e. experience or qualified. As we all know, the definition of competence includes knowledge, training, experience AND qualification, not one or the other. Granted, it would be foolhardy to employ someone who has just completed NEBOSH certificate and has no practical experience. However, I would venture to suggest that it would be just as foolhardy to employ someone with 20 years experience and no formal qualifications. The NEBOSH Certificate is an excellent qualification for supervisors, safety reps and practitioners in extremely low risk environments with few staff. Small companies often have no full time safety officer/advisor and add the job to someone elses duties. NEBOSH Cert. is ideal in these circumstances. And lets not hear about how expensive it is. I did it for £160 at local college. Once again, Competence = qualifications AND experience Kind regards, Nick

Posted By Nick Higginson Phil, I wasn't being critical. From your qualifications and experience, it is evident that you are thoroughly competent. The absence of the Diploma isnt really an issue is it? I was trying to get across that someone with NEBOSH cert AND experience can be just as competent as anyone else. Kind regards, Nick

Posted By John Allen I’m sure this is relevant to this thread but apologies to Angela if she thinks I’ve hi-jacked it again. My problem is neither with highly experienced people with no qualifications nor highly qualified people with no experience. The worst thing that happens to Safety Practitioners is that they often have people with neither promoted over their heads. The most senior positions in safety are often held by people who are on the general career ladder and have been transferred into safety to broaden their experience. It’s funny this doesn’t happen in legal or a medical department isn’t it? This trend is not confined to industry. The current HSC commissioners only appear to include two people who have come from a professional safety background. Are any of them IOSH members? Even two is an improvement. Historically the Chairman has never been a safety professional and the Director General of the HSE has usually been a career civil servant appointed over the Chief Inspectors. A few weeks ago in a large company (which for obvious reasons will be nameless) the Director of Safety and Environment (non safety professional – no qualifications) and the Safety Team Manager (non IOSH member) went into the office of one of their subordinates, a qualified and experienced practitioner and asked him to take his FIOSH certificate down from the wall. Apparently it embarrassed them. No comment should be required here. Employers who do not specify appropriate qualifications should be shamed into compliance. One often sees “an appropriate safety qualification preferred but not essential” in an advert for a safety practitioner but never “ an appropriate medical qualification preferred but not essential” in an advert for a doctor.