Posted By Robert Paterson I have posted messages on the forum with regard to seeking employment in Health and Safety. Some of the answers have led to either phone calls or interviews but no work as yet. I wonder if it is my varied experience of health and safety or dare I say it my age (48) that is a barrier to employment.Interested to hear comments from other people who may be experiencing the same reaction as myself. It is with regret to say that sometimes there is no reply at all from enquiries If any companies are still looking for an experienced H&S person, I can be contacted at RPate54785@aol.com for further discussion. C.V available to all. Regards Robert Paterson

Posted By Robert Paterson Thanks Michael I am in the central belt of Scotland and find that there are a few vacancies mainly through agencies. Would be nice if agencies let you know if your are unsuccessful and give a reason or some idea of why. Nothing worse than not knowing. Maybe some of the agency people would like to respond and help us along the road to employment. Any form of advice would be welcome. Regards Robert Paterson

Posted By Dave Wilson Rob, Cant agree more H&E Employment agencies are the pits for people trying to find work in H&S. They get comission if they place someone but nothing if they dont! So if you are 'not right' for the position then they have no interest in you, as you don't make them money!! so speaking or communicating with you is costing them! They would be best served and reminded that without the HS&E Person they would not have a commodity to work with!!! If they knew why you were unsuccesful for what ever reason then maybe they could help you in the future to get a job and then make themselves money and also be able to present suitable candidates for presentation to the prospective employer, rather than wasting yours and their time.

Posted By Robert Paterson Michael I could'nt agree more. The problem seems to be that inexperience is more attractive than experienced. Watching an item on the news recently about the lack of people doing training is resulting in a shortage of quality people in certain areas of industry. The problem with ageism is that nobody wants to tackle the issue. I don't know if a study can be done to see how many persons over the age of 40 are employed in safety. I am not banging a drum or trying to get up peoples noses I just want the opportunity to be given a chance in the Health and Safety industry. People our age have a lot to offer Employers. Regards Robert Paterson

Posted By Robert Paterson Hi Dave I agree that it is not all down to ageism but I can site some instances when going for a position with other candidates. One of the candidates used to work with me in a previous job. He had little qualifications and experience with regard to health and safety and was 12 years younger than me. He was called back for interview where I never heard from them again. I know that not all employers are not like that and in fact as a result of this forum I have had interest in my C.V. Your comments are very revelant to the problem and I appreciate them. I continue to press on in the hope that I too can be a part of H&S. Thanks again Regards Robert Paterson

Posted By Michael Miller Dave I agree that it is fruitless to apply for positions that are skill specific. (something I have never done) However that said what happened to the employer willing to train. How are we supposed to get experience when we are continously over looked. Often I have applied for positions that only ask for NEBOSH cert.(which I have) as well as 50% of a diploma to date. Also I only apply for positions that are in my field of experience, construction/building maintenance. I have thirty tears experience here! 15 of which are supervisory management. Is this not experience? I manage safety on a daily basis. If things keep going the way they are by the time I get that said experience I may be dead. Just joking! Thank to you all for your contributions. You just have to keep laughing and looking. Mike

Posted By Robert Paterson Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond to the thread and also thanks to everyone who contacted me directly. Iam greatly encouraged by some of the responses escpecially those from people who have managed to secure a job even in their twilight years. Good Luck to them all. But the problem does not go away. There is a vacancy that was posted on the 16 May 2003 of which I responded to and received an email back to say they would be in touch. Again nothing happened and I see the vacancy posted on the forum for a second time. As I said before it would be good if companies replied and let us know why we were not successful. I ask again of agencies and companies to give us "oldies" a chance to prove to you that experience of life is just as important a comodity as having diplomas and degrees. Thanks once again Kind Regards Robert Paterson

Posted By Philip Jones Have any of you tried looking for a job in the training side of health/safety? This is one area where the older you are the "more experienced" you are.A load of tosh I know, but with a short course (city and guilds 730/7, adult and further education teaching certificate)(from any local FE college, about 150 quid)you will give yourself another string to your bow as it were. Most H/S professionals are now having training included in their remit so it could give you the edge in that interview. Just a thought! Good luck Phil

Posted By Dave Raymond Dear All, Reading the last 16 or so responses, it seems clear there is a very real frustration in the market place both over client requirements and recruitment agencies. Well I'm a manager of a recruitment company to the Health and Safety industry, so I am hoping that I can give you some help and some insight into the fickle world of recruitment. We are new to Health and Safety recruitment as a sector, but have over 15 years experience of the recruitment industry. Over the past 9 months we've gone from a start-up in a new industry to a thriving desk. This can only be due to 3 scenarios. 1. There is a need for Health and Safety professionals in the market place. 2. There is a supply of those H&S professionals, who fit the requirements of the clients 3. Previous recruitment agencies in H&S have not had tough competition, meaning Quality and integrity fall easily away. I personal belief is that both Quality and Integrity should be the holy grail of recruitment. Fair to often I speak to H&S candidates who have had a rough ride on the career moves, and it sounds like a lot of people on this forum have also experienced this. Surely when you move job, thats the time you need support and back up, but also some honesty. Obviously there is only so much we can do in your career move. Unfortunatley we can't make you younger if the client wants someone of 30's. And if a client is looking for construction experience, then that's exactly what they need and previous experience of retail just wont match. So we are totally client dependent, we can only find you a job if we have a job that exactly meets both parties expectations. However the advantage is that we will sell you rather than a CV, and age is not too much of a factor (unless the client specifies) as I have place 58 year olds. I see the H&S market as a busy and sucessful market place for all parties involved, and a market place full of professionals that are clear of their needs and expectations. Which makes my job easier. Enough for now. Regards Dave Raymond Review Health & Safety

Posted By Geoff Burt Nah Ron you're much too old!! I just don't believe in this ageism theory as a generalisation. Its all about experience, the right academic qualifications for the specific job and ..........a practical and pragmatic attitude. Qualifications are the least important of those three, you can be taught what you need to know, but it is difficult to change an employees attitude. Employers, and I include my company in that, are looking for practical down to earth (pardon the pun you construction guys) advisors who can put a practical slant on things. Quoting regs whether at interview or on site is a no go, if you have to quote them you've lost the 'battle'. Our job is persuasion, good (not common! we've all got that or it wouldn't be common)sense, a practical bent, and having the confidence in knowing when to back off - there's always another day. Geoff

Posted By Ron Young All I can say Mr Burt, if I'm too old, you must have had a very tough paper round! However, whilst I do agree entirely with your LATTER comments, others might not! g'day

Posted By Geoff Burt Robert, we are not bickering, we know each other and having a joke! Know what I mean?

Posted By Robert Paterson Looks like the jokes on me, Ha,Ha,Ha As previously mentioned elsewhere in this thread I am not getting at anyone in particular and no offense is meant. Sometimes you get so fed up trying to obtain work that some attitudes seem off (not yours I might add. Anyway lets not get hung up on attitudes as we are all in this organisation to promote health and safety in the workplace. Kind Regards and best wishes to everyone Robert Paterson

Posted By Michael Miller It has been some time since I visited this thread due to pressures of study. I am pleasanty surprised that it continues to thrive. Someone reommended Teaching qualifications for us old farts. I already have this qualification C&G 730 F.Ed cert. I has not helped me one bit! When I decided to train as a safety professional I had thought that having construction experience and a teaching qualification, it might give me two strings to my bow. If not an advisor perhaps a consultant. The fact is that despite what qualifications you may have, if you are on the wrong side of forty your on an uphill struggle. I wish I had known this before I spent 3yrs and nearly £4000 on gaining qualifications. It has been suggested on this thread that we should not asume that ageism is the problem and having the right experience and attitude is the key. How can we begin to believe this when all you have to do is look in any newspaper, job shop and sometimes the SHP and see comments like 'ideally you will be under 35' or 'we are looking for a dynamic person to join a young team' and so on and so on--- The list of discrimination is endless. On the other end of the spectrum we do have our uses.. when it comes to companies wishing to employ a 'mature person preferably some one in semi retirement to be our health and safety manager/contracts manager and security advisor, all for £8000 per annum pro rata. Question. Am I getting paranoid or is there a trend developing where employers try to recruit safety advisors into dual roles? Is the job not difficult enough trying to make behavioural changes in determined individuals as well as dealing with management who are on a self destruct mode driven by profit. With ageism legislation now coming into play we would be fools to think that this will make any difference. The only exeption will be the change of wording in adverts. They will not mention age but the discrimination will still take place. They have you by the ganggooleys when they read your CV. They only have to look at your previous work history and if you are like me who served an apprenticeship in 1969, your dead in the water. Thank you for listening/reading It does seem that we have opened pandora's box with this one. I look with interest for your responses. Mike (still frustrated) Miller

Posted By Robert Paterson Hi Everyone I am not re raising this issue again, but to let everyone who took part in the thread know that my search for a position in Health and Safety has come to an end as I will be taking up a position of Health and Safety Manager at the beginning of next month. Thanks for all your responses both on the forum and direct to my personal email. They were most encouraging and helped me through a time of despair I will continue to visit the forum and will always be available to help anyone else who may be experiencing similar problems as myself had experienced. If you are then may I encourage you to hang on in there as it is written "everything comes to he who waits" Thanks again to all the fellow safety professionals out there. Kind Regards Robert Paterson