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Posted By Chris Harris
Can anyone help with thoughts on the above.
Our hotel has a small lift switch room designated as a confined space. In the event of a fire would using CO2 present a further risk! What alternatives are there?
Any/all suggestions appreciated.
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Posted By Bryn Maidment
Chris
If no responses are forthcoming try posting the same query on www.fire.org.uk's forum.
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Posted By Ken Taylor
The risk of using CO2 in confined spaces relates to the expulsion of sufficient oxygen for persons present. A CO2 is probably the correct extinguisher for the room in question. Presumably it's the type of room that is not normally occupied and once the door is opened there is an adequate supply of additional air. When you consider the effects of combustion product gases from the fire and the advantages of efficient extinguishing by CO2, the CO2 extinguisher appears to be the best choice for a room of the type described above.
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Posted By Stuart Nagle
Chris.
In my experience, In such locations as enclosed (below ground) plant rooms etc, there are various systems in place for dealing with fire risks.
Firstly, in larger or perhaps more 'delicate' areas, it is not uncommon to inert gas flooding systems, which of course represent a risk of asphyxiation to persons.
Also, as you state, in some other types of areas, inert gas fire extinguishers are used, which can also represent risks to persons, as above.
As the previous respondent states, air from an open door may enter the location, which would also feed a fire, and possibly make first responder fire fighting a more hazardous activity !!
There are options;
1) consider fitting an inert gas system that automatically responds to fire.
2) Consider the use of breathing apparatus, being stored in the vicinity of the entrance to the plant room.
This would of course require medicals/training of staff who may be required to use it, and overheads in maintenance and testing of course, as would the above system.
3) Invite the local Fire Prevention Officer to inspect the facility and suggest what improvements could be made to reduce the risks that you have obviously noted, and see if a reasonably practicable way forward is available.
Hope this is of some use.
best regards...
Stuart Nagle
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Posted By Ken Taylor
Let me hasten to re-iterate that my response referred to a 'small lift switch room' as you state. Large plant rooms, underground confined spaces and the like are a different issue - particularly as to the greatly increased risk to persons present from both the fire and the extinguishant. As to total flood systems, Halon-based types have to be replaced very shortly and, whilst other synthetics are available as alternatives, my present preference is for 'Inergen' systems which contain naturally-occurring gasses and enable occupants to escape during discharge.
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Posted By Chris Harris
Many thalks for the help on this one. It appears this may be a generic problem within many hotels across the UK. I am hoping to clarify the position further after hearing from H & S colleagues involved in fire risk management issues.Chris Harris
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Posted By Gary Cutter
Hi Chris
CO2 is a cracking extinguiser for electrical fires. It does have some inherent problems with it eg noisy, can cause cold burns if used inappropriately, and is an asphyxiant above certain concentraions ( I think 6%) but on the plus sides it clean and very good in a confined space. I suspect your considering this medium because of the predominant risk ie electrical within the room. You could consider Dry Powder, again a very good extinguisher, but beware very messy. Sadly Halon extinguishers have been phased out. They were particularly good. There are replacements being developed for these FM200 and others which I know are being used in fixed installations but may be available in portable extinguishers. Please remember though any extinguisher is only as good as the operator, so training is imperative.Hope thats of some use to you.
Regards
Gary
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Posted By Nigel Lusby
Chris,
CO2 poisoning (hypercapnia) causes a variety of symptoms, including nausea, sweating, apprehension, and increased respiration. It can also asphyxiate. Not surprisingly it has an MEL (EH 40). I believe its STEL at one atmosphere is around 1.5%.
Regards Nigel
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Posted By Peter Hebblethwaite
With an electrical fire the CO2 extinguisher
is the most appropriate. The danger indeed, as previosly mentioned is to open the door, allowing greater amounts of oxygen in. This can feed the fire. A rush of air may create a flame out or backdraft scenario.
Personal entry does create a risk. I guess you have fire extinguishers on contract. Your current supplier can offer training. This can often be included in the contract price.
Also look at your fire risk assessment, to ensure fire defence systems are managed in the rest of the hotel and that you have a clear concise evacuation plan, with routing away from the fire risk / danger area.
Inert gas systems can be of use, but has been stated, they can, like any equipment develop faults. Investigate reliabilty and planned preventative system maintenance. as well as cost. The old hlogen gas used in Computer room are fazing out, if not gone.
Get quotes, get independant competant advive.
Best rgds Peter Hebblethwaite.
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Posted By Ken Taylor
Whilst dry powder is 'safe' for use on fires involving normal mains electricity, it does not, unlike CO2, have the penetration needed to enter the equipment involved. A CO2 extinguisher is the 'norm' for small electrical intake rooms, riser cupboards, small plant rooms and the like.
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