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#1 Posted : 05 July 2001 19:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Richardson I work for a large rubber processing factory which manufactures automotive rubber seals for doors windows bonnets and boots etc. I am looking for some advise on placing a workshop area in close proximity of a nest of valves and pipes associated with mains gas. Part of the workshop area has a welding and burning section. My immediate reaction was to say that the burning equipment must not be in close proximity of the the mains gas pipework. The maintenance manager tends to disagree with this statement due to the fact that wherever the site is located it will still be in close proximity of either gas pipework and valves or gas heaters. I have contacted the local HSE for advise and they agree with my close proximity statement, but listening to the maintenance manager, I am inclined to agree with him. Do I maintain that the equipment remain at a safe distance, in which case two other areas would have to be removed, or do I look at the probability theory (we have been here for ten years without incident) and try to ensure a safe system is maintained through dilegence and training. Any advise or if anybody has been in this same situation and solved the problem I would be greatful to hear from you. Thanks
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#2 Posted : 05 July 2001 21:45:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ken Taylor This sort of question is always difficult to answer without seeing the site in question (and sometimes even then!). It is essentially a matter of risk assessment but I would be unhappy about a situation where hot work could impinge upon gas-carrying pipework or in such proximity to gas valves that it would be within fire or explosion air concentrations in the event of gas escape or letting-by. I would suggest that the Fire Authority would be better judges of the situation than the HSE - particularly as they enforce the legislation for fire risk assessments. Have you asked a local Fire Prevention Officer to visit?.
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#3 Posted : 07 July 2001 12:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Richardson Thanks for the response Ken, yes I have spoken to the local fire officer, but only for reference to specific distances. There is no actual distance laid down, it comes down to close proximity. I agree with your suggestion and will bring in the fire officer. I often find with management that they will generally try to come up with some excuse not to accept an internal recommendation, but when an outsider is brought in they will (sometimes) assume that this person knows what he is talking about and accept his advice, albeit the same advice that the company man has already put forward. Oh and I almost forgot to add that if they have to pay for the advice it must be better than free advice. Thanks again Dave
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#4 Posted : 11 July 2001 16:47:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Webster I agree that it would be difficult to answer this one without seeing the premises, and a visit from your local fire prevention officer is recommended. However, when you are looking at risk, then consider what parts of your gas system pose the greatest risk of escape. I would suggest that your distribution system/pipework is low risk - certainly no greater than in any other industrial, commercial or even domestic premises. It is likely to be at low pressure. If the pipework is safe from mechanical damage, the main potential leakage points are at the valves to the heaters, flexible connections and associated glands. A regular inspection programme should control this risk. In the event of escape whilst the premises are occupied, the smell of gas SHOULD be detected long before an explosive atmosphere is reached (not that we can always rely on smell - the nose is one of the most sensitive gas detectors on the market, it's just not the most reliable). So we come to your "nest" of pipes and valves. I assume this is where the mains comes in, and is regulated and metered. Regular inspection is again the key to safety, as well as protecting the equipment from mechanical damage. Incoming gas is at higher pressure, and the risk of escape, though still small, is higher than elsewhere in the system. Regulator diaphragms can, though rarely, rupture. More likely are small weepages from valve stems etc. For added peace of mind, would it be possible to enclose the "nest", and ventilate the space externally? (I don't expect anybody to follow this control measure, but perversely, it can in practice be safer to have lots of sources of ignition in close proximity to a potential escape - that way the leak will ignite before an explosive atmosphere fills a large area!!! However, if driving at 80 mph it is safer to drive 6inches behind the car in front than 20feet behind - and I have come across quite a few people who actually use this, some of them on motorbikes :-).) John
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#5 Posted : 12 July 2001 18:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Richardson Thanks John for a good comprehensive piece of advise. Dave
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#6 Posted : 13 July 2001 10:29:00(UTC)
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Posted By Phil Roberts Dave , have you thought about the installation of a gas monitoring system that would indicate a leak long befor an explosive atmospher was reached. There are several on the market both battery and mains powered. They can be calibrated to measure very low concentrations down to 2 or 3 ppm. Regards Phil
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