Posted By Dave Wilson
AC is an unlicensed product irrespective of the type of fibre contained within it, as it is tightly bound in and unlikely to release fibres if worked on in accordance with the Asbestos Task Manual

Posted By Ron Hunter
I think the fundamental question here is what is the legal definition of asbestos cement? I can't find a definition in the relevant statutes (1983 on).
Guidance docs say a cement product usually containing up to 15% asbestos and having a dry density > 1 tonne/cubic metre. Anyone out there with a definitive legal reference?
I can't find any reference to asbestos type, i.e. amphiboles, or serpentine only.
As ranges of asbestos products were routinely made in the same factory, then it is reasonable to expect some cross-contamination of AC with amosite, or even crocidolite fibres?
The everyday answer is as above - safe systems of work & approach based on the likelihood of the material to release fibres. For AC this is low, irrespective of asbestos fibre type?

Posted By Stephen R Robinson
Nice try from the contractor, but give him a slap for trying to pull one on you.

There are not many labs in the country that can carry out the density test required to determine the difference between AIB and Cement, and as far as I know it's quite pricey.

However, you can usually tell the difference quite easily in most cases.

If you don't mind me asking, what is the background to this job? If no analysis has been done how do you know it is Asbestos? do the sheets have AT marked on them? Were they presumed during a type 2 survey?

Posted By Gilles27
Moving off the thread (which I think is sorted now(?)) It crossed my mind that the lack of labs capable of checking density may be the reason the new regs propose a (new?) test for establishing density - water absorbtion rates etc. My guess is this is a simpler method??? - Bung it in the oven then chuck it in a bucket of water... (laughs). Out of interest we have got Croc in some of our 'cement' shuttering.

If i'm out of date or just being stupid can someone post 'shut up jon'!

Posted By MarkJAWatkins
Dave,


I am a longtime admirer of your postings and I am a fellow asbestos industry professional. At this moment, I am actually on a offshore platform in the north sea appraising prospected asbestos removal works. However, although I agree with your comment that an experienced surveyor can tell the difference I don't think that it would carry much clout if it came to court.


Up in Scotland the HSE are almost fanatical about density analysis on samples. I had one HSE inspector demand that we treated an AC removal as AIB because the density came back at 1268kg/m3 - apparently it was too close to call....yeah right!


The problem you have with certain HSE inspectors forcing density analysis is that unless they enforce this on all licensed contractors we are at a disadvantage when tendering for works.


Back to your comment again about surveyor experience, you have the same problems when it comes down to condition of the ACM. It is all down to individual interpretation of the damage. You will know better than most that the score difference on an algorithim between medium and high damage can send the risk rating into medium or high risk.


I totally agree that an experienced surveyor can differeniate between the two, but I don't think that it is enough in the work of compensation claims we live in now adays.


Regards,
Mark

Posted By Dave Wilson
Agree mate it is interesting that you get different perspectives from different inspectors on interpretation of the regs and I know that the ALU in Edinburgh are working hard to get a uniformity of enforcement approach. An ALPI meeting is going on as we speak.

Its a good point really that should a client pay the extra and see whether an Asi board is cement or AIB etc as it would totally change the 'management bplan' and how to manage it, this may also have a knock on effect in what you would pay for removal / remedial work or should they take the analyst / surveyor report on it?