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Posted By Safe System
Am i right in assuming that if a bucket falls of an excavator due to a fautly mechanism in the hitch it falls under a dangerous occurance under Schedule 2 of RIDDOR?
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Posted By Safe System
I believe the Bucket came loose while machine was working in segregated area on site, all other operatives were on other side of site in the working area...
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Posted By Swis
If you believe that the incident was a dangerous occurrence and could result serious adverse effects, then it’s reportable. However, if you believe that the incident could not have resulted in an injury etc, consult with others/HSE to evaluate whether reportable or not.
IMO - info provided is insufficient and yes failure of such mechanisms can result in major unwanted affects, therefore reportable.
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Posted By Ron Hunter
"Failure of a load-bearing part of an excavator" certainly fits
Schedule 2.
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Posted By Safe System
Hi Peter,
Fully aware, was on a site where one struck someone in the head, killing them. Wasn't my site for inspections thank goodness.
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Posted By TonyB
Swis,
Although your sentiments are admirable, most of Schedule 2 requirements are very specific and are not qualified by any 'if someone could have been hurt' criteria. Therefore, regardless of what your opinion is to whether or not someone could be hurt or how serious it could have been, it must still be report.
Off the top of my head, the only two DOs that are qualified by the potential level of harm are the failure of a pressure system and a lost of containment of a hazardous substance.
All the best,
TonyB
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Posted By Phil Rose
I can't agree with you on that one Swis - dangerous occurrences that are reportable belong to a pretty specific list of occurrences
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Posted By Nick TM Patience
Reportable DOs in Schedule 2 para 1 include: the collapse of, the overturning of, or the failure of any load-bearing part of any (Item e in the list)... excavator.
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Posted By toby liberson
I think a valid question would be whether the has been a failure of the load bearing equipment or whether it was operator error that has caused this occurrence
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Posted By Swis
TonyB/Phil,
My response was a ‘common sense approach’ to those who have no access to schedule 2 (or any other secdule) of RIDDOR. Obviously, Safe System would not consult this issue if he had access to written material in ‘black & white’.
Further more, I myself didn’t have access to such information therefore I have expressed my opinion in this matter using the very same approach. (last para of my post)
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Posted By Bob Y Swis - I don't whether SS has access to the schedule or not. I think he/she was seeking clarification. But your statement "If you believe that the incident was a dangerous occurrence and could result serious adverse effects, then it’s reportable" is factually incorrect. There are many dangerous occurrences that happen all of the time but ONLY those that fall under the RIDDOR definition are actually reportable under RIDDOR. The list of dangerous occurrences can be found for free on the HSE website at http://www.hse.gov.uk/ri.../guidance.htm#dangerous.
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Posted By Swis
Bob Y,
As stated in my previous statement, my initial post is only a ‘common sense’ approach if RIDDOR guidance is not available. I never claimed my comments to be taken as an ACOP. I even used the word IMO.
The following paragraphs from your referred webpage support my arguments anyway.
If something happens which does not result in a reportable injury, but which clearly could have done, then it may be a dangerous occurrence which must be reported immediately.
*****
accidental release of any substance which may damage health
*****
If you are still not happy, i'll take my words back (with apology).
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Posted By Bob Y
I am not unhappy; and I do not wish for an apology. I was merely pointing out that your statement was factually incorrect.
You need to consider two things:
1. The word "may" in "If something happens which does not result in a reportable injury, but which clearly could have done, then it may be a dangerous occurrence which must be reported immediately"; and
2. the actual list of dangerous occurrences that are reportable under RIDDOR
I don't think that either supports your argument or original statement "If you believe that the incident was a dangerous occurrence and could result serious adverse effects, then it’s reportable"
As I have said, many many dangerous occurrences happen that could well have resulted in serious injury or even death would nevertheless NOT be reportable under RIDDOR because they do not fall under the definition of a REPORTABLE dangerous occurrence
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Posted By Swis
Bob,
Likewise, in the very same sentence, you emphasis on word ‘may’ and I emphasis on the word ‘must’.
‘if you believe that the incident was a dangerous occurrence’. Here I emphasis on words ‘dangerous occurrence’ which are in contrast with RIDDOR. If someone believes that the incident is reportable then it’s better to report it to HSE to be on safe side.
I wish, I could delete my original post, as I only meant to express my OPINION.
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Posted By TonyB
Swis/Bob
This tate-a-tate is in danger of hijacking the thread. I think both sides having made their point. I know I started this but I did say the general approach suggested by Swis was admirable, and it is always a good idea to report just in case if you are unsure. It's not an offence to report in error!
Getting back to point - a lack of awareness is no defence. I would suggest that any person who may have decide if something is reportable under RIDDOR should get themselves a free copy of HSE Guidance. It can even be downloaded from the HSE website.
TonyB
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Posted By Phil Rose
What an 'odd' exchange! Come on now, some dangerous occurrences are reportable and some are not. Those that are reportable are listed under RIDDOR. If it isn't listed, then it isn't reportable.
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