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Posted By Safe System
If we, as EMPLOYED safety advisors, are not comfortable with the way a task will be completed - what happens to liabilities?
i.e. Workers are planning to do some long duration work at a height of just under 3 meters. In order of the hierarchy i would like the properly constructed platforms in place OR air bags etc.. however, the guy doing the work has convinced the boss that a harness system is best and that is how he will work...
I have been told to compile a method statement for this but i do not feel comfortable as the HSE clearly states that this system should be used for short term work (minutes not hours) but if i do not do the risk assessment and method statement - then they will carry on anyway or put together a sub standard one.
So, what do we do in instances like this?!
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Posted By Swis
I would write to the senior person in charge (may be by e-mail) confirming that I do not approve any such practice and the fact that you will not participate in this project if people don’t listen to you. This will discharge your duties in the event if something goes wrong.
P.S. don’t forget to look elsewhere for any vacancies if this is the normal practice.
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Posted By Safe System
I agree but the Moral dilemma here ...
If i do not prepare this risk assessment then no-one will. At least if i carry out the assessment based on the planned working practice then i may be able to minimise the risk...
What do you think?
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Posted By Saz G
Or, you could try further reasoning with the boss and present some factual and legislative arguments (with cost differences in time, equipment etc) and explain your stance as the employed competent person.
If they are provided with a valid reason for you vehemently being opposed to this, they may listen. If they do not change, their minds, then submit everything in writing and document that they went against your advice.
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Posted By Safe System
Saz, this would of worked but i was only informed of this work today and it WILL go ahead tomorrow...
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Posted By Saz G
Ah, different issue then? Agree with the above posts in that case, some form of RA and MS better than none, with possible extra controls? And THEN do the other submissions in writing etc....
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Posted By Jay Joshi
You have not stated the general nature of the work at just under 3 metres. Although there is a hierarchy and some guidelines regrding what is short/long duration, you also have to take into account the nature of the work and the ease or otherwise of placing/erecting platforms.
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Posted By Homer
A safety Adviser stands proud and firm and believes in what he does. :-)
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Posted By Richard Altoft
comparative risk assessment. Do the risk assessment clearly showing that for method X the risk is low, method Y the risk is higher etc. It is for management to decide on the tolerable level of risk and for you to tell that the risks differ depending on method. They have the SFARP decisions to make and to justify later -- this is not necessarily the role of the competent person. You can at each stage indicate what the legislation says and what you think reasonably practicable is in each case and what the residual risk is if certain things are not done. Clearly record who you issued this to and when.Keep a copy and issue to everyone who has a right to know.
R
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Posted By Bob Youel
you should not be doing the RA nor the method statement as its ownership that is required as the H&S bod you should be facilitating those undertaking the exercise
if in doubt get support from a professional who has more experience or just to back you up [this forum cannot give the close support that you may need so talk to your local IOSH group]-and asking others IS a sign of competence!
once you get your argument together sit with the MD etc and explain your case thereafter put it in writing - then do as the MD etc tells you to as you have done all you can and you get no medals for losing your job but make sure that your case is strong!
As for liability and insurance etc that would then be the MD's problem
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Safety Adviser doesn't write Method Statements in my book, that would be the job of the person who devised the Method. Neither would I be putting my name on them.
I would scrutinise them, and comment as required - in writing where appropriate.
Why would you want to put your name on someone else's unsafe system of work?
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Posted By Safe System
Agree Ron..
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Posted By Mick154
I agree with all the above in theory
Me i would ask for all information on the task then do a risk assessment, if in your RA you identify an issue, then look at controls followed by recommendation for a safe system of work
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Posted By Catman
Hi Safe System
I am sure you (and I) are not the only people here who have been told that we will not be listened to at times.
What I normally do is weight it up, if I can see that OK, their method is not top line, but its doable without anybody getting hurt then I get involved and make sure what they are doing goes well.
I have very rarely gone down the road of E mailing the boss to say what you are doing is not right and i'm not getting involved. Probably only once or twice in 15 years.
Of course if they don't listen in more cases than not, then its time to look elsewhere.
Cheers
TW
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Posted By Anthony Edwards
Safe System,
IMHO you should conduct the risk assessment and if your finding are that the activity is high risk state that fact with the possible consequences, (possible fatality due to inadequate controls in place), and that you feel further controls should be put in place. Do not be tempted to fit the assessment to the managers requests as if it goes 'Pete Tong' the assessment may not be deemed suitable and sufficient!
But hang on in there
All the best
Tony
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Posted By justgossip
Over the course of eight or nine years I have come across this a few times.
Way I see it,
I go to work and conduct risk assessments.
I hand over to boss for signature,
He may agree or not with my RA.
The Boss decides and the boss carries the can.
No point in me getting to excited as I am a safety advisor, I do what it says on the tin, advise.
If the boss wants to go in a different direction that I have suggested, my input from there is to minimise the risk along the path he has choosen.
garry
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