Posted By SBC Peter: spot on. To clarify a few things....... -A compelled statement under S20 CANNOT be used to get a person to incriminate himself (or his spouse or partner). Any inspector taking such a statement using S20(2)(j) powers must explain this and the status of such a statement to a witness. - It is usual to request a voluntary (S9 CJA) statement. Again, the inspector should explain this if taking a formal statement. (Or the inspector may just conduct an informal "interview" and take notes in his notebook, if the circumstances do not warrant taking a formal statement.) - Interviews under caution are a different animal. If I tried to "ambush" a suspect in the way Dave mentions, my line manager would be extremely annoyed to say the least...... -A PN can only be withdrawn if it was a deferred PN and the time for it to come into operation it is not yet reached. An immediate PN once served cannot be withdrawn by the inspector- it can only be complied with or appealed. However an IN can be withdrawn- that is what the forms Graham refers to are normally for. It's at least 21 days (3 weeks, not 3 months) before a notice goes in the Register- as there is 21 days allowed for appeal. Hope that helps.

Posted By Graham Bullough My apologies for wrongly suggesting that the formal withdrawal form I described could be used for withdrawing a PN. Blame it if you wish on creeping er, magnesia, nope, insomnia, not that either... got it...amnesia which afflicts some of us fifty-somethings!

Posted By Robert K Lewis I would actually argue that a deferred PN must be an incorrect use of the PN and an IN should have been used. Remember these are intended for use when there is IMMEDIATE risk. If it is not immediate than the IN is the corrct route. Any Deferred PN must be appealed on this basis. On the question of S36 I have to say that I have seen this become an increasingly common approach regardless of visits/inspections and reports, even to MDs. As the MHSWR competent person the HSE expects the adviser to make proactive moves to ensuring the company is perperly supported. The fact that the MD of this company did not want to see the reports of visits asks the question as to how well the MD was advised on his responsibilities. This talk of a PN against the individual may be irrelevant as the question could be "Why did the management procedures permit scaffolds without handrails to have access method available? In the case of prefab towers similar management questions can be posed. Ther operative may simply end up as witness to the lack of clear supervision at the meeting. As an aside - does at least one of the site supervision hold the SMSTS Shopfitting certificate and if not have you clearly recommended its use and provided information on courses? As the "competent person" this is the extra mile you need to go. Bob

Posted By Crim This company does provide training and has recently had shop fitting training for all employees. There are trained first aiders and further training has been booked including access scaffold, abrasive wheels, fork lift trucks and more. That training was organised before this HSE incident. Unfortunately the Site Manager who was in charge on the day is a little short of his training - usually "too busy" or on holiday when training happens. A small correction - the MD does look at all reports of site visits and used to act accordingly.

Posted By H Baker Crim, From your initial post you do not seem to indicate that you feel that you were being asked to attend the meeting to discuss your actions specifically. Some posts have run with that idea. It seems that you have already met with him by this point anyway. However, to clear up a few miscionceptions: The duty on site is with the dutyholder - your client. An advisor can only carry out the tasks allocated by the client. It is therefore very rare that an inspector would call you to a meeting via the client to discuss any shortcomings with your services - unless he has found a glaring mistake in any advice or written information provided. You can only do what the client pays you to do and the ultimate duty to control the risk is not yours. Do not panic if you are asked to attend a meeting - the inspector will more that likely have you there to agree a way forward with the client. Off subject a little: A deferred PN is given in very few circumstances where the immediate cessation of a process would lead to a potentially more dangerous scenario. For example, a chemical process which if stopped could result in a build up of pressure or the release of an intermediate, harmful byproduct. An inspector would probably not make such a mistake but if they did - and it was appealed, the tribunal would more than likely amend the PN to an immediate one in the circumstances described above (i.e. getting employees off an unsafe scaffold). PN's can be given to individuals but this is rare. I've done it in the past when scaffold companies have provided training and equipment and the employee still does not use it - but this was only after giving advice on a previous occasion. It is still down to the company's management systems to ensure the safe system of work is adhered to by monitoring and auditing. HSE no longer uses the term "voluntary cessation of work". This term was brought in for a work at height campaign a few years ago as a a way of recording situations (for internal recording to senior management) where the inspector used his discretion not to issue a notice - which still happens. The term VCW is now frowned upon. The inspector would usually have to justify why a notice was not served and there are many reasons why they might not.. too varied to go into here.

Posted By Karel Burgoyne In response to your original query- Item 1 ) I have just received an email to the effect that one of my clients has been visited by a HSE Inspector. Ans) Ask your client a) what exactly was said / discussed at the meeting and was there any “tone”, or note of concern raised. Item 2) The inspector has required a meeting at the head office in a few weeks time and I wonder what he would be looking for? The inspector has offered to meet in a few weeks time, so there is nothing suggests, immediate concern to me. The visit was to a shopfit site and the inspector has indicated a full morning will be required for the meeting. Ans) Call/ write to the inspector asking them for a draft agenda, as you want to ensure the best people turn up from the client to add value to the discussion. This is also true for your own involvement. They should do this without any hesitation. Item 3) I hope to gain further information soon and provide the info here but would appreciate some of your experiences in dealing with HSE inspectors. Ans) A bit of prep work with those who do attend as to the expected bahaviours with the HSE, ie stick to the questions / topic asked, and answer in an open and honest manner. Its that simple, and remember if some HSE advice is offered take time out to consider. I have regular (postive) dealings with the HSE, and for me, it is about building up, and maintaining an element of trust with them.

Posted By Dave Wilson And its deemed a serious offence not to comply with a notice

Posted By Crim As far as I am concerned, and this is my personal opinion, I have nothing to worry about personally. I work for the company when requested to do so, I offer advice and guidance and futher to that I have written the safety policy, carried out fire risk assessments and other assessments, and advised on them carrying out their own risk assessments. Everything I do for them is based on the HSE recommended methods. Not to mention the FSRRO. They have very recently been accepted by the SAFEcontractor scheme after a series of audits with my involvement, I had to ammend the safety policy to suit the scheme and they were sent a copy of my CV. I put the companies construction phase plans together, they get scrutinised by various CDM C's and are also copied to management at various shopping centres. That's OK so far? The problem arises when they go on site and have to "fast track" the shop fit under pressure from their Client to get the job done ASAP, and that's where corners are cut. It is the Client who places demands on them and they have to give in. They price jobs as close to the knuckle as possible and then have to discount otherwise they lose the project. If only the HSE would have a close look at what Clients require of their PC's it may then be possibe to relax the pressure and allow more time for H&S on site? I am not condoning short cutting health and safety but having operated in that area for some years now I have a good understanding of those issues.

Posted By Stuff4blokes Crim, that sounds like a great result: the employer has had their backside kicked by the enforcers, an employee has been personally warned by them and the safety consultant is likely to be listened to when next he offers advice. Your PI insurers can come off alert now!

Posted By Crim Thanks for the support, the monents Martin mentions were when I expected it will be my turn next? Thankfully that turn never came, although I should be fairly confident about myself as there were a few positives mentioned by the inspectors regarding my work.

Posted By Crim The more I think about it, and obviously because it went well for me, I see it as an excellent learning experience. It opened my eyes regarding some areas I was not too familiar with. The recommendations made at the meeting include vibration monitoring and electrical isolation procedures. I have today looked at both those issues and am now a lot more confident in both areas. I look forward to applying my new found knowledge when I visit site on behalf on this company. Thanks again for all the support, even the alarmists among you!

Posted By Crim That's exactly what I was intending. The experience of the meeting was eye opening and from that I have learned about other disciplines as well. It will certainly enhance my CPD.