Posted By ian_f As part of pre-start checks on a scaffold sub-contractor; an old CITB Scaffolder card dated 1979 has been supplied. Having rang CISRS, they have confirmed that his card transferred to their scheme/system but as the person has not yet upgraded/renewed their membership they have not been issued with a new CISRS Scaffolder card... My client is now saying that they require only CISRS persons on site; this was not previously requested. Do scaffolders have to be registered to the CISRS to be deemed a competent person? In this instance the scaffold has been designed and is non-complex...if that makes any difference.

Posted By ian_f Even when his card is valid, albeit not a new one that has the letter CISRS on it? If it an industry requirement how do such companies manage to get work and indeed hold appopriate insurance?

Posted By Charlie1 Try this down load link for an uptodate info on the 5 year validity, category classifications and the required training for competencies. http://www.cisrs.org.uk/...ts/Cisrs_Cap_609_000.pdf I have recently heard of cases where the insurance company has refused to pay out due to the scaffolder not been deemed competent Good luck!

Posted By SNS ... long winded ...... not wided ..

Posted By Garry Adams Ian I started with SGB in 1972 as a trainee Scaffolder, I progressed through the SGB training Program and eventually achieved Scaffold Erector 18 months later. In March of 1979 I was obliged to attend a two week Basic Scaffolders Course at the CITB Hillington Centre, recently I applied for and received my CISRS Card, which will expire end of May 2011, whereupon I will have to apply yet again for my CISRS Card. The point I am trying to make is NO Card NO Job. To answer your question, Do Scaffolders have to be registered to the CISRS to be deemed a competent person ?. My answer is that there is no Statutory requirement to be a Card carrying Scaffolder, one merely must be able to demonstrate competance based on the capability to Erect a Scaffold Structure to Statutory requirements. HOWEVER, Organisations insist on CISRS Card Holders because this is now the norm, a CISRS Card holder is not necessary a Competent Scaffolder...my Grand Mother had a humf on her back, but, that did not make her a Camel. Although I am engaged in 3rd Party Statutory Scaffold Inspections and Commissioning Agent, However, I still keep the Card Active, one never knows when one will have to dawn the Tartan Banners. Garry...

Posted By Garry Adams LondonScaff It is comparativly easy to Train home grown Scaffold Erectors, a regime of in-house Training Programms ensures the Quality of the Competance and Capability of your Scaffold Crews. HOWEVER, as you will be well aware, Scaffold Erectors are Mercinary Nomadic Individals are will Jack at the drop of a hat and start with another Firm for more Sovs, and quite right too we hold no alegiance to anyone. I have been called upon to Audit Subbies and new starts, as part of the Induction, I include a Trade Test, Practical and Theoretical, relative to the Task Specific Structures required, Tube and Fittings and or System. This technique is used within the U.K. Oil and Gas Industry and I have used it in Nigeria and the UAE. As I have mentioned in my previouse post, there is not a Statutory requirement to hold a CISIRS Card, therefore, if a Scaff can demonstrate the he (she) can erect a Scaffold to Statutory requirements and demonstrate Capability and Competance, if after a Trade Test and has no card and subsquantly refused a start, would this be grounds for discrimination ??? and would the Scaff have a case in Law ??? ( one for the legal eagels amongst you ). Has Trade Tests got a place in Auditing Scaffs Qualifications ???. As for easy to obtain qualifications, you can get some of the System Scaffold Tickets out of a corn flake packet, and as for Scaffold Inspection, there havin a laugh init...

Posted By Garry Adams LondonScaff I concur regarding, Statutory Instrument N.o.735; Schedule 7. The Scafftag Safety Management System is not a Statutory requirement, however, it is a useful addendum to Schedule 7 and therefore ( as you have intimated in your latest post ) has its place in a Loss Prevention Strategy. I also concur, that on Large Construction Projects it is not reasonably practicable to Tag every guard rail ect. However, you have raised a question,i.e. when is a collection of Scaffold Components become a Structure valid for Inspection (and Tagging)?., Perhaps if it is not listed within TG20:08 then it need not be officially Inspected and recorded !. With regard to visual Inspections, it is stated that a more rigorous Inspection be conducted where required. Do you ( your Organisation ) conduct rigorous ( physical) Inspections ?. Fraternal regards Garry...

Posted By danwel The reason the "older scaff" who has been doing this for 30 years has to go and start from scratch is that they had a time period to just gain grandfather rights on their old cards but this has since run out and thy now have to start from the begginning. By next year but not sure when companies are not going to employ anyone without the CISRS card.