Posted By martinw To you safety FFs When you fire safety officers carry out fire risk assessments as part of your employment duties, the findings from any particular inspection have legal ramifications if ignored. I am interested to know what is the status of someone like me who carries out fire risk assessments, but not while employed by a fire brigade/service. The assessments are always on third party properties, not owned by my employer, but partial control is implied. My query is that if I make a recommendation in a FRA that eg a luminaire should be installed above a final exit point, if the person to whom I am making this recommendation ignores it, do I just come running to you guys, or have I any legal standing to say that my FRA findings are required unless successfully challenged? Sorry for this on a Friday afternoon.... Martin

Posted By CSL Maybe this will help you decide on what actions to take ... An independent health and safety consultant has been fined £200 and ordered to pay £500 towards HSE costs for failing to recognise or alert others to the lack of safety guards on a thermo-forming machine. Ian Stuart Muir pleaded guilty before Dewsbury magistrates on 12 August to breaching s3(2) of HSWA 1974 by failing as a consultant to ensure his work activities did not affect the health and safety of others. Mr Muir had been hired by Northern Packaging and Display in January 2004 to risk-assess the machine, which cuts and moulds plastic, as part of a health and safety check of the firm’s workshop. In mitigation Mr Muir said he had not been able to undertake a full inspection of each specific machine in the workshop. He added that he no longer intended to work as a health and safety consultant. The HSE stressed that Mr Muir’s prosecution was not linked to an accident involving the machine, in which an employee’s upper body was crushed. "We did not allege that Mr Muir’s negligence caused the accident, but that he neglected to notice and point out to Northern Packaging the fact that the guarding and control were not right," HSE inspector Julian Franklin told SHP. Richard Jones, IOSH’s director of technical affairs, commented: "It is up to the employer to determine the competency of consultants before taking them on. . .While there are many safety consultants operating within the UK, there is no legal requirement for any level of competency. IOSH believes this is unacceptable. It is important for any safety consultant to have a proven track record of competence."

Posted By D. Hilton you have a contract to provide advice, it is acted upon or not. You have discharged your duty, on moral grounds and dependant on the consequences of a failure to act on the advice given, you are entitled to contact the enforcing authority. However, I would suggest that career prospects would be limited thereafter.

Posted By CSL Darren ... in response ... its about competency

Posted By D. Hilton CSL The thread is not about competency it's about an employer ignoring a finding

Posted By D. Hilton Sorry Chas the clarity did not jump out at me

Posted By Paul Leadbetter Martin As a competent person, you have done your bit. It is then up to the responsible person to shoulder their responsibilities, surely? Paul

Posted By D. Hilton I agree, you have discharged your duties as FRA and an employee. The responsibility for action or otherwise rests with the RP.

Posted By Messy Shaw I am employed to conduct the FRA (or review) and present my findings in an agreed format to an agreed person within the organisation. My report is then circulated by that person for further action. Yes is is frustrating when items are ignored year on year, but it is not my role to do anything more. For the most serious problems, I will telephone my contact on the day and follow up with an email and later the FRA report. This is not what I have been employed to do, but sometimes I feel some situations cannot wait the fortnight or so it will take for the report to be written & circulated and I need to maintain my professional integrity. However, if I shortcut the system and report higher up the chain,(and over the head of the person I have agreed to report to) it's not my integrity which is threatened, it's my contract!!

Posted By martinw Thanks folks