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Posted By Buzz
Does anyone find there is quite a lot of variation between what is required by building control regarding fire signage, and what is required by British standards/Fire Order?
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Posted By Simon Walsh.
In theory there should be no, or very little variation of substance that cannot be dealt with through consultation.
Building Control and Approved Inspectors do ask for the Fire Authorities views on building design and fire safety precautions for new builds and other items of interest to the Fire Authority.
If there is any disagreement then this should be ironed out between them before final approval is given.
Where both parties cannot agree then in planning terms Building Control have the final answer, unless you want to appeal.
Does anyone else have another view?
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Posted By Buzz
What if the disagreement is not between the fire officer and BC?
What if the fire signage is completely inadequate in the bld, yet it's gone through the BC route, been approved, the fire officer has walked round and the building's been handed back over?!
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Rank: Guest
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Posted By Simon Walsh.
Who else is disagrees?
The only people who can enforce fire safety requirements are Building Control at consultation stage as they can say 'We want X, Y and Z before approval is given", or the fire authority?
If someone else disagrees with areas such as signage on what basis are they disagreeing?
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Rank: Guest
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Posted By marcusblack
Compliance with building regulations does not necessarily mean compliance with any statutory H&S / Fire regulation. Building regs approved documents provide GUIDANCE on meeting MINIMUM standards which may not meet the needs of the individual building and it's use.
Even new builds with a completion certificate from building control will require risk assessment and in my experience will usually require additional work.
I once found a large retail unit with a steel beam running across a protected stairway at a height of 1.7m and the exit from a 80 cover public cafe with the door opening against the direction of travel.
Although not to spec, the building had been passed by an Approved Building Inspector and had it's completion certificate. I had an interesting conversation with the director of the retailer regarding who was liable under the RRO.
A full risk assessment is the only way to identify the requirement of a specific building and it's occupants.
Regards,
Mark
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Rank: Guest
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Posted By Buzz
Hi Mark,
Yes this is very similar to what's happened.
The building has been built and inspected by the fire officers and building control, yet the fire risk assessment has identified insufficient fire signage.
On visiting the building I totally agree. It's not just a case of 'you could do with a sign there' (being picky), the lack of fire signage is extremely obvious and certainly does not comply with BS 5499-4!
This just makes me question the whole process really and as a client, who would end up in court over something like this when we're relying on other 'competent' people to do the job for us!
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Posted By Messy Shaw
The bottom line is that (as a general rule) BC approval looks mainly at the building, whilst FRA looks at the building and how it is occupied.
Consider a new build range of 3 identical warehouse unit. You know the type of thing, warehouse with a small office building at the front/side.
The developer sends the plans to the LA for BC approval. The BC people considered them to be warehouses and tick all boxes.
18 months later, the fire service go and have a look at the finished & occupied buildings.
unit 1 is a nut and bolt distributors
unit 2 is a children's soft-play centre
unit 3 fills & distributes LPG cylinders
All the same building, but put to uses with wildly different risks. As a result, there is bound to be different (and additional) provision in unit 2 & 3 that were perhaps not considered during the BC process
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Rank: Guest
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Posted By Buzz
Yes I agree with what you're saying.
But i'm specifically talking about fire signage, and on the whole this does not vary from the start!
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