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Mr H&S  
#1 Posted : 05 January 2010 23:44:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mr H&S

I had a conversation today on a construction site with a contracts manager,

I advised we order grit for the walkways & scaffolding

He contracts managers responce was - Grit is no good in tempatures under 0-

Can anyone clarify this or is it a money saving scheme

Any help would be gratefull as i believe we should distrabute the grite in any case

JMc
Brett Day SP  
#2 Posted : 06 January 2010 03:32:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Brett Day SP


I would imagine that it's similar to highways usage - so called 'grit' has a salt content to help melt ice and the larger 'grit' helps provide traction.

Walkways definately should be gritted, if the scaffolds are that covered in snow or ice how safe is it to be working there? I'm not sure of the effects of grit on scaffold boards either so that may also be something you want to check.
Alex Petrie  
#3 Posted : 06 January 2010 08:56:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Alex Petrie

I'd be tempted to ask him where he got his information from? Then call a supplier and find out from them.

If grit is no use in minus temperatures then why are local authorities falling over themselves to get some to spread on the roads?
teh_boy  
#4 Posted : 06 January 2010 09:36:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

How often does it freeze above freezing?

Common salt (NaCl) chanegs the freezing point of water to somewhere around -5 if I rememebr correctly, other salts may alter it further still. Add in some sand for grip and...

get gritting :)

A horrid side effect is a rusty car :(
pl53  
#5 Posted : 06 January 2010 09:42:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pl53

The whole point of grit, or more correctly, rock salt is to reduce the freezing point of water down below 0C. It does this by partially dissolving in the water. This action melts the snow / ice because the freezing point of the resulting solution is lower. I believe that this becomes ineffective around about -6C, which would be the freezing point of the resulting solution, but I am not absolutely certain of that figure.

Your contracts manager has either genuinely misunderstood what he has been told or just doesn't want to grit the site
Alex Petrie  
#6 Posted : 06 January 2010 09:47:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Alex Petrie

I'd go with the "Doesn't want to grit the site" option.

Thanks for the technical information Peter - makes sense now one comes to think about it.

Billibob  
#7 Posted : 06 January 2010 09:57:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Billibob

Some information

Salt will melt snow at temperatures as low as -20° C. However, salt starts to become less effective at minus 5°C and almost ineffective at lower temperatures. As a result, it use becomes practically, economically and environmentally difficult. In extremely low temperatures, or heavy snowfall, a mix of salt and grit may be used to aid traction.

grim72  
#8 Posted : 06 January 2010 11:05:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
grim72

I can suggest an alternative to salt if you are interested - it doesnt rust, is eco-friendly and is more efficient than salt in terms of coverage and effective at lower temperatures. It is something I used to use a few years ago but found it worked well. I have no connection with the company but PM me if you want the company name for you to follow up.
wazimu0  
#9 Posted : 06 January 2010 12:02:39(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

It may also be that he is talking about grit sand, as apposed to grit salt.

Grit sand is OK near to freezing, but no good once the Ice and snow sets in.

Alex Petrie  
#10 Posted : 06 January 2010 12:11:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Alex Petrie

Surely the point Mr H&S needs to make is that the scaffold etc should be treated with something to dissolve the ice / snow to make the workplace safer for his employees?
jay  
#11 Posted : 06 January 2010 12:40:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

Your managers is either misinformed or__________

For a detailed answer, refer to:-

http://antoine.frostburg...why-salt-melts-ice.shtml

The lowest temperature possible for water-salt solution is -21.1 C. The depression of the freezing point is also dependent upon the salt solution concentration


Mr H&S  
#12 Posted : 07 January 2010 19:00:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mr H&S

Hi All

Thank you very much for your reply's

since my post we have closed the site until the thaw starts,

Once the thaw starts we would remove the snow from the walkways inc. the scaffolding walkways & apply grit.

The CM was slightly out as most of you stated not -0 but -6 grit becomes inaffective

this is what I was looking for & although found the info in the net your reply's were appreciated & thats what this forum is for

Thanks again

Keep safe

JMC
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