Rank: Super forum user 
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Does anyone have any guidance or information on loading goods into customers cars? There's little out there and what is can be largely discounted as the type of car and the nature of the goods is variable.
We used to prohibit it but the reality is that doesn't work. Even if you don't offer to help, some customers will ask and it's counter-intuative for someone who works in customer service to refuse.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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When I bought my TV from a highstreet retailer it was taken out back for me, I had to open it up and sign it wasnt broken before accepting it, it was left in the car park next to my car for me to take away.
I guess it is not manual handling/safety but more the security of the package and delicate nature of the goods which they would be more concerned about i.e if I arrive home and it was broken during "my" transport, could I blame them for wrongly placing it my boot, or damage to my vehicle or other goods inside my car?
Or if the employee blocked the sight out of the rear view mirror of the vehicle as the vehicle was not suitable for the goods (washing machine say) and that person was involved in an RTA could there be a knock on liability?
Sounds like a H+S gone mad nightmare to me but I would like to be able to say it is down to over zealous insurance companies, in reality? it is probably both and litigation scared senior management who would rather avoid the issue altogether.
Erm sorry i think this turned in to more of a rant than any helpful advice sorry
Des
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Rank: Super forum user
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I know what you mean on a recent audit I had to stop a customer leaving with a CO2 cylinder in his passenger seat with valve pointing at his head!...
There is some general guidance in carriage in van etc for cylinders from BCGA and also LPGA.. Retail has tried and had some good success by taking the risk on themselves and designing good manual handling aids etc...DSG did some very good work as I remember...try the Logistics safety forum with the Institute of Logistics.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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If the goods are suitable in all respects for your customer to load into his vehicle, then the involvement of employees with suitable competency and resources for the task shouldn't be an issue.
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Rank: Super forum user
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ron hunter wrote:If the goods are suitable in all respects for your customer to load into his vehicle, then the involvement of employees with suitable competency and resources for the task shouldn't be an issue.
???????
Ron, I'm not quite sure you've understood the issue. When a 90 year old customer comes into shop, spends a couple hundred quid with you and then asks you to put a bag of cement in the boot of his Marina how are you going to do it safely?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Safety
I know exactly what you mean - nothing annoys me more than buying goods and being told that staff cannot help me "because its against elf and safety init!".
Just treat this like any other manual handling risk. You know your goods, there are not that many designs of car out there. Staff may have a variety of cars that you can use for the assessment. You have obviously already identified that booted cars are more of an issue because of the "lip" around the boot.
Brian
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I am with Ron - sensible approach might win some favours with the sceptics.
Simple time and motion study (probably through consultation process or questionaire with your staff), use of their (existing?) MH training knowledge and applied control of 'if it is too heavy for you it is too heavy for us... - we will only deliver these items'
Saying 'yes you can' to staff might relieve them of the confusion they already have.
Regarding the hazardous stuff - I got stopped by staff filling 'unsuitable containers' with petrol in the summer for the garden stuff.
Good for them I said to myself (embarrisingly) putting the jam jars back in the boot :<)
Steve
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Safety Smurf wrote:ron hunter wrote:If the goods are suitable in all respects for your customer to load into his vehicle, then the involvement of employees with suitable competency and resources for the task shouldn't be an issue.
???????
Ron, I'm not quite sure you've understood the issue. When a 90 year old customer comes into shop, spends a couple hundred quid with you and then asks you to put a bag of cement in the boot of his Marina how are you going to do it safely?
Probably in the same way that any member of staff would move a bag of cement anywhere around the business?
We have a similar issue in the airline industry. Cabin crew are not supposed to help passengers place their bags in the overhead lockers. In reality, it's nigh on impossible to say no if you're asked for help. As a result, you recognise that this is going to happen and provide appropriate training and information to reduce the risk as much as practicable.
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Rank: New forum user
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Safety Smurf- to go with your example:
As with any Manual Handling exercise an assessment should be undertaken.
TILE- Task, Individual, Load and Environment
What is the Task? Loading goods. Is PPE needed, is there a safe system of work in place for this activity?
Individual- 80 year old man? then capable member of staff should be used. They should be Manaul Handling trained and be able to assess weather they can load the goods.
Load- If the load is heavy (HSE guidance Manual Handling) then 2 staff members should undertake the task.
Environment- How far is the car from the premises? Is there a dedicated loading area that could be used to a mechanical aid could be used to assist?
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Rank: Super forum user
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I was atempting to keep things simple in the absence of detail, SafetyS.
If your business involves "trade" goods then there comes a point where a private vehicle just isn't going to be suitable (bag of cement, paving slabs etc.) No point in helping your customer put something into the boot that they can't get out at the other end? (and a burst bag of cement in the boot, or a broken rear suspension spring isn't going to win you a supplier of the year award either).
What about branching out into the home delivery or van hire business as some of the bigger operators do?
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Rank: Super forum user
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I must admit I'm dismayed and alarmed at the lack of understanding of the issue (and how the retail world works in particular)
Risk assessing it doesn't make it safe. Training in kinetic lifting does not provide a safe solution.
Please understand I am not new to this, I have been delivering manual handling training to operatives and instructors for some considerable time.
Carrying is not the problem, we have trollies for this. The issue is leaning into the boot or leaning in through the car door to manipulate loads (the bag of cement was only an example, we don't even sell cement). You can't bend at the knees when there's a car in the way!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Safety Smurf
Safety Smurf wrote:Does anyone have any guidance or information on loading goods into customers cars?
Was the original request - looks like people cannot directly assist - perhaps if you could kindly describe what it is you are trying to load. I have a some experience with this but not with particularly heavy items just awkward ones picture frame etc and assisting elderly customers as a customer service.
Lack of understanding in the retail world and how it works Safety Smurf never - surly all you do is manage people pushing trolleys!! Ha ha. Its the perception I get fed back.
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Rank: Super forum user
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DP wrote:Safety Smurf
Safety Smurf wrote:Does anyone have any guidance or information on loading goods into customers cars?
Was the original request - looks like people cannot directly assist - perhaps if you could kindly describe what it is you are trying to load. I have a some experience with this but not with particularly heavy items just awkward ones picture frame etc and assisting elderly customers as a customer service.
Lack of understanding in the retail world and how it works Safety Smurf never - surly all you do is manage people pushing trolleys!! Ha ha. Its the perception I get fed back.
Ha ha,..If only! ;-)
Actually, Radiators are one of the biggest bains of my life.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Safety
Unfortunately that's why I said do a risk assessment. You will have done this within your premises no doubt and have assessed putting items on display etc so why not do the same thing with customers cars. There is a wealth of equipment out there today such as small mobile lifting tables which might help you lift something up to a car boot level and prevent injuries to staff. I understand what Ron is saying but if you point out to people how hard it is to get something out of their boot when they get home and they still want to do it then is it up to you to say no?
Without knowing exactly what stock you are talking about it is difficult to offer more advice.
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Originally Posted by: Safety Smurf The issue is leaning into the boot or leaning in through the car door to manipulate loads (the bag of cement was only an example, we don' 
Safety
I think stating the issue in your initial post would have given the forum a clearer understanding of the guidance you were asking for.
There are probably hundreds of examples where a business loads goods into family cars and other situations of awkward lifting arise such as the one described by Myles earlier.
Risk assessment will surely help you identify:
What goods should not be available for customer pick up and as Ron says should be offered as home delivery only.
how often employees actually have to load cars
if there is a history of accidents/injury from this task
employees with underlying health problems/conditions who must not attempt this task
IMHO I don’t think there is any specific guidance, but you can demonstrate that you have assessed the problem with input especially from the employees and clarified with management agreed parameters in terms of size, weight, and other load factors.
Ron’s comments regarding vehicle damage and who is going to unload should also be taken into account.
This information could then be clearly brought to customer’s attention in store or online.
PS I’m in retail too, but lucky me - we sell shoes!
Have worked for a fire surround business and kitchen worktop manufacturer in the past though!
Geoff
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Rank: Super forum user
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Geoff Dale wrote:
Risk assessment will surely help you identify:
What goods should not be available for customer pick up and as Ron says should be offered as home delivery only.
The unfortunate truth of this is your customers will go elsewhere and thus begins a slippery slide that few recover from.
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Safety Smurf wrote:I must admit I'm dismayed and alarmed at the lack of understanding of the issue (and how the retail world works in particular)
Seems a bit harsh considering it was you asking the original question!
You're right though, risk assessment does not make it safe - it's a process whereby you identify the practical steps you can take to control that risk.
I'm being slightly mischevious with the following comment, but it seems like you aren't willing to accept that there will be a residual level of risk. How often are employees asked to assist customers? Are they really being exposed to a significant level of risk? Is there an accident history suggesting that this a real problem (after all, people have been lifting things in and out of car boots since before car boots were invented!)?
Again, there are a wide range of tasks which involve manual handling in awkward places (if you think a car boot is bad - try handling baggage in an Embraer 170 with headroom of less than 1m!), and IMHO you are running the risk of making a mountain out of a molehill.
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Rank: Forum user
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Safety Smurf wrote:Does anyone have any guidance or information on loading goods into customers cars? There's little out there and what is can be largely discounted as the type of car and the nature of the goods is variable.
We used to prohibit it but the reality is that doesn't work. Even if you don't offer to help, some customers will ask and it's counter-intuative for someone who works in customer service to refuse.
In the rail industry some passengers appear to use trains as a means of moving home. The size, weight, and number of cases and trunks an individual will struggle onto a concourse with, is sometimes quite staggering. Apart from the disruption it causes to services and other passengers, station customer service staff are sort of expected to assist.
We give staff some basic manual handling training, but the key is allowing them to make their own assessment of each situation and simply know when to say 'sorry' or ask for assistance.
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In Northern Ireland the staff seem to fight to put the stuff in your car!! Particularly at Petrol stations etc - lifting bags of coal into your car. Within my experience of H&S in retailing the complaints were always from the staff moaning and groaning about the things that they were lifting - very few from the customer and very few damage complaints.
I would develop a policy which incorporates a risk assessment for the lifter etc
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Rank: Super forum user
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There is enough history of accidents for me to be concerned about it and injury claims as well.
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