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decimomal  
#1 Posted : 11 May 2012 13:26:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

Can anyone advise on the requirement (if any) for fire extinguishers in holiday lets please?

The owner has provided Dry Powder extinguishers but there have been comments from fire officers to say that these should be removed as the occupiers will not have been trained in their use. This sort of makes sense, but obviously leaves no provision in place. Any suggestions?

Many thanks.
Murray18822  
#2 Posted : 11 May 2012 13:45:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Murray18822

That lack of training may very well cause even more of a dilemma but any one can buy an extinguisher from a retailer. Prevention - electrical and gas safety and a no smokng policy.
Bob M  
#3 Posted : 11 May 2012 14:06:25(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Bob M

You do need an extinguisher in a holiday let, one for each floor should be sufficient in small lets but that may be subject to risk assessment in larger or multiple occupancy buildings. They should be placed near exits, signed and instructions for their use placed by them. Powder is the best multi purpose extinguishant.

smitch  
#4 Posted : 11 May 2012 14:48:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
smitch

Whilst I would in now way class myself as a fire specialist:

I would echo Bobs comment and have one extinguisher on each floor, plus a fire blanket in the kitchen area (if applicable).

Yes dry powder is the best all round type, but there are risks from reduced visibility, breathing in powder, cleaning up etc.

I personally would also ensure that instructions on how to use are in place.

To be honest it could well be one of those you’re dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t scenarios, a different fire officer on a different day might say yes you should have extinguishers in place.

I’m sure you are aware of the gov’t guides available from the communities’ website and in this particular case: http://www.communities.g...ons/fire/firesafetyrisk4

But another document from the same site:
http://www.communities.g...ire/pdf/payingguests.pdf
may be of some help, could wave this under the fire officer who wants extinguishers removed nose? Just a thought.

smitch  
#5 Posted : 11 May 2012 14:49:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
smitch

Opps should have read "Whilst I would in no way class myself as a fire specialist"

oh for an edit button ;-0
firesafety101  
#6 Posted : 11 May 2012 21:26:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Decimomal wrote:
Can anyone advise on the requirement (if any) for fire extinguishers in holiday lets please?

The owner has provided Dry Powder extinguishers but there have been comments from fire officers to say that these should be removed as the occupiers will not have been trained in their use. This sort of makes sense, but obviously leaves no provision in place. Any suggestions?

Many thanks.


Why not go back to the fire officer and ask what type is best as chances are no one on holiday has been trained in any type of fire extinguisher use? (Chocolate fireguard??????)

I think I know the type you have, small, off the shelf DP on a clip bracket? Nothing wrong with that as long as it fits the risk.

We should be asking why it is there? To fight a fire or to assist escape? I suggest the latter.

Prevention is better than cure - ensure smoke alarms are installed, tested and if battery type then the battery should be in the unit. I once rented a caravan on a well known holiday park and when I looked at the smoke alarm there was no battery.

Early alert could mean the extinguisher will not be needed?





messyshaw  
#7 Posted : 12 May 2012 14:09:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
messyshaw

I worked for 32 years in a busy fire brigade (23 of them squirting water on the fireground).

During that time, I witnessed scores (perhaps > 100) of people who sustained injuries such as burns or smoke inhalation during fire-fighting attempts using buckets of water, tea towels or picking up pans etc to extinguish a fire in an ad hoc way as they had no access to proper FFE

I also witnessed perhaps < 12 people (some had been trained, others not) who sustained injuries whilst using firefighting equipment, including 4 x fully trained hospital staff using a hosereel for far too long in a smoky one room fire .

OK, I accept that this is not exactly scientific evidence, but is the risk of an untrained punter using an extinguisher incorrectly higher that letting people do their own thing during a fire? Are there any stats to back up the idea that in low risk premises, supply of FFE raises the risk of injury??

In a fire, many people will instinctively 'have a go' - even if not trained or having access to extinguishers. So I ask you, does the provision of a DP extinguisher in these circumstance pose a real & significant risk to untrained punters, or does it in fact give them some level of protection compared with an ad hoc attack on the fire by smothering with coats etc etc.

Of course it depends on the circumstances of course, but in this example of a holiday let - or in the ubiquitous cases of extinguishers in common parts - should the fire safety community adopt a little more relaxed attitude??



BigRab  
#8 Posted : 12 May 2012 20:47:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
BigRab

I think the Fire Officer in this case is probably confusing two different categories of people.

On the one hand you have a duty to train employees to use FFE but no duty to train non employees. There is also a duty in the RRFSO and the Fire Safety (Scotland) Regs. to provide suitable and sufficient means of fighting fire. The Acts and Regs also require that you protect the safety of persons not in your employment. The regulations don't exempt you from providing FFE if nobody is trained.

Can you imagine the scenario if, God forbid, a child in a holiday let is injured or killed in a fire. The subsequent enquiry would doubtless pinpoint the lack of suitable FFE provision as one of the contributory factors. Quite apart from the regulatory requirement there is also a common law duty of care. Failing to provide FFE is quite clearly a breach of the duty of care and would be actionable if it contributed to the death or injury of a person.

It is also perhaps slightly "off the wall" to suggest that an adult of average intelligence could not operate a fire extinguisher by simply reading the label. Obviously it would be desireable if every adult with responsibilities towards children took the trouble to check the safety equipment in the holiday let and to make sure they know how to use it. Now I know that is not going to happen but not providing the means of fighting a fire is not the answer to that problem!
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