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safetyman2010  
#1 Posted : 17 October 2012 18:37:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
safetyman2010

Hi All,

I'm sure this has been discussed previously but i thought i'd ask the question to other safety professionals about any successful apporaches taken to try and tackle compensation culture within workplaces and how to reduce/influence the volume of claims for minor injuries. No need to state we should stop having accidents through RA, training, procedures, etc as this is obviously the main area of focus to improve. Just wondering if anyone has done any that has had a positive effect on their numbers of claims received for minor injuries.

Cheers
bob youel  
#2 Posted : 18 October 2012 06:39:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

Its a good idea but if you can find a way of stopping people wanting to make money please let me know as all employees get thrown at them is to be a capitalist via the TV, the government and other areas and all capitalists want is money hence claims are seen as an easy way of making money
best of luck
DP  
#3 Posted : 18 October 2012 07:35:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
DP

Its difficult safetyman everything is stacked against you from the offset as an employer, regulation is to easy fall by, the legal systems is a against you and then you have the culture of easy money as Bob notes.

Changes have to come from the top and this is now slowing coming with 'Jackson' - but more is needed in my opinion.

All you can do is plug away as the safety culture in your own business - keep complaint as possible empowering the workforce in managing safety and do your bit and hope that top decision makers help you.

I attended a 'state of the market' insurance event yesterday and one speaker informed us of an interesting fact in motor claims - in the US 1 in 10 accident results in a whiplash claim - in the UK its 1 in 1.7 accidents.
Jake  
#4 Posted : 18 October 2012 08:12:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jake

As a retailer the vast majority of our claims are PL, we fortunately have very few EL claims, however the two rules we work to are:
- Don't settle on economies when it's clearly a spurious or easily defendable claim
- Publish those cases that you do win to make it clear you will fight and win these cases where compensation is not due

I think part of the problem companies face is the all-to-easy decision to settle on economies, which creates a gravy train of person (be it informed members of the public or employees) putting in claims because they know they'll get some money out of it).

It will be more expensive in some (maybe the majority if you really only ever have claims for minor injuries) to defend rather than settle, but if you believe these are spurious claims then the only way to stop the gravy-train is to fight at least some of them so people will know you won’t just roll over when a letter arrives on your desk.
Tomkins26432  
#5 Posted : 18 October 2012 08:50:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Tomkins26432

Our insurers are hosting an industry specific seminar on 'claims defensibility' at the end of this month. This has arisen as our industry sector has let them know that we are concerned at what we think is the relatively low threshold of claim settlement (it's economics to a degree). Working with the insurer we plan to better align our H&S recording systems to create a record base which will allow us to defend some claims better.

My job is to try to keep people safe, but once I do that my next is to protect interests of the industry so it seems and obvious next step.

I'm sure other industries have similar relationships with insurers and could benefit from working a bit closer together.
DP  
#6 Posted : 18 October 2012 09:44:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
DP

Jake spot on, defend to the hilt and don't settle I totally agree…………. The vast majority of my claims are to PL and once again the majority are spurious too……….. These are the ones that have to de defended, as it soon gets out to the 'no win no fee gang' who is and isn't an easy touch. You know the usual suspects as your in retail!!!!!!!

Tompkins - its crucial that any safety department works closely with insurance department, brokers and insurers with regards any casualty policies and claims - defending claims is in the detail and if detail is missed?? - I manage insurance in my current role as well as safety, regular meetings and claims reviews take place so we all learn and develop as a team.
David Bannister  
#7 Posted : 18 October 2012 09:47:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

I know one of the big insurers offers a claims defensibility service, probably others do so, and also the better brokers. Tomkins26432's insurer certainly does. Probably available too as a consultancy service for non-clients.

I have previously worked with clients on this topic and success needs a full commitment from all concerned, including top management, HR, finance, insurers, brokers, line management and supervisors, as well as a well-managed H&S regime.

Suggest that you ask the question of your insurers and if a negative response, factor that in to your next insurance buying decision.

KieranD  
#8 Posted : 18 October 2012 10:05:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
KieranD

Safetyman

Since the heading of your enquiry referred to 'culture', a fruitful response focuses on that rather than simply on negotiating tactics.

You asked, Just wondering if anyone has done any that has had a positive effect on their numbers of claims received for minor injuries.

If you want an answer that addresses this in terms of your professed interest in 'culture', read, 'From Good to Great' and subsequent titles by Jim Collins. He explains how a small minority of companies successfully create a culture in which valid claims are respected and those inclined to make invalid claims are 'left off the bus' either before it starts to move or shortly afterwards.

Alex Haslam's research on stress management, published in 'The Social Cure' (2012), offers a similar story.

No quick fixes but steady progress based on clear-sighted analysis by well-informed managers as well as fair, lawful leadership.

boblewis  
#9 Posted : 18 October 2012 19:28:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Best way always is to stop accidents!!! Insurers use the phrase claim management but this can seem like liability avoidance. Personally I think most claims have a basis in fact and there is a degree of employer liability and thus compensation is a consequence of this.

Where a defence may exist most employers do not keep good enough paperwork for it to be used in an evidential way. So keeping better records can help

Bob

NLivesey  
#10 Posted : 19 October 2012 11:12:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
NLivesey

As much as stopping accidents can reduce claims you've got to bear in mind there will ALWAYS be the element that reports an accident and makes a claim when there's no real evidence.

The real key to changing a claims culture is relatively simple In THEORY!!! If you engage a workforce and make sure they feel the success of the company is their success then the spurious accidents (either the event itself or the alleged severity of injury) and subsequent claims will reduce. In principle if you can achieve this then it also creates a culture of positive peer pressure, so people will challenge other when they're doing something wrong. When this happens then the accident rate should reduce as a result of people taking ownership of their own actions and the actions of their colleagues and it becomes culturally unacceptable to make a claim when it's the fault of the individual.

Now, that's the theory. Putting into practice is a whole different ball game. My company is implementing a culture change program on a national scale and it's predicted that it will take several years for it to fully integrate and become part of the day job. This also takes a lot of different method of engagement to be rolled out throughout the program.

So the questions you may need to ask is 'How do your employees feel about the company?' and 'how can i get them better engaged?'
Steveeckersley  
#11 Posted : 19 October 2012 11:42:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Steveeckersley

Have to agree with bob re the paperwork - You have to be very good in your paperwork not just keeping it but describing any interventions in a clear & precise way right down to what wrods are used.
Couple of years ago through thorough investigation I found out a potential claimant was off sick at the time of the alleged accident although they had turned up for work that day but had left before the time of the accident. This was because of good record keeping by the dept. It just so happened the persons brother who also worked in the same dept had tried to make a claim some months later for a similar thing and failed. Forget spurious - wilful attempts at fraud are not as uncommon as we think!
gramsay  
#12 Posted : 19 October 2012 12:11:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
gramsay

Excellent point, Nlivesey. I work in an environment with a historically high level of non-engagement, distrust, claims and a very "us & them" relationship between certain sections. I'm not clear on how to change this yet, but seeing the company as "us" and not "them" would be a great aim.

As far as a claims culture goes, I also agree with robustly defending where relevant. We're in the process of building a closer relationship with the decision makers at our insurers to assist with this.
dbs  
#13 Posted : 19 October 2012 16:12:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
dbs

I believe that there is talk of changing the law so that the legal profession can only make a set amount on these claims.

I beliefve this will reduce the problem if its not worth their while.

They will then travel further afield to find people who they can represent against the British Fiends
DP  
#14 Posted : 19 October 2012 16:40:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
DP

Interesting - this will challenge opinion

http://www.shponline.co....k-years-warns-opposition
m  
#15 Posted : 19 October 2012 17:25:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
m

As alluded to above; my recommendation is to have a vigorous incident investigation process and this will demonstate that you have a commitment to prevent re-occurence and plenty of evidence for when that claim comes in two years and eleven months later - or the HSE if it is RIDDOR.
Juan Carlos Arias  
#16 Posted : 19 October 2012 18:35:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Juan Carlos Arias

From my experience, one of the issues is that insurance companies are some times too eager to pay for claims rather than fighting them even despite these being easily defendable. This is due to the fact that costs are incurred in defending claims and more often than not, this costs are well beyond the amount the amount initially claimed for as damages.

A company might think this is ok as the money paid out does not come directly from them. This is paid by the insurance however, this is a totally false economy, the premiums go up and the workforce jump in the band wagon when they see the company pays for claims easily.

I once had to insist on an insurance company that we defended a claim for £1700. We ended up expending 16K in doing so. In my opinion this was a great achievement as we successfully defended the claim and it sent a strong message out to every one that we were not going to be taken for a ride. There are some specific claims that we need to ensure we fight to the end otherwise you just open a can of worms.

On the other hand, I think it is important to be fair and put your hands up when presented with genuine claims.
boblewis  
#17 Posted : 19 October 2012 19:48:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

dbs

The much heralded changes from conditional fee to contingency fee agreements this seems to have been somewhat held back. Success fees will be limited but not the costs themselves.

Bob
johnmurray  
#18 Posted : 20 October 2012 11:07:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

I think that waiting before crowing may be in order with the above...
The legal institutions are already gearing-up for any change...
Have a read:

http://hsf-litigationnot...e-commercial-litigation/

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