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PCK57  
#1 Posted : 14 March 2013 16:38:56(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
PCK57

As our company is about to start a new contract which involves peripatetic working -ie constantly moving from site to site with no base - normal standards for site-based welfare facilities cannot be adhered to. As part of a number of different precautions, Antibacterial wipes are to be used when running water is not available. Being aware that in hospitals most antibacterial wipes are alcohol based, why does there appear to be a preference for non-alcohol based wipes in the H&S community? Is there a scientific/hygiene reason for so doing?
martinw  
#2 Posted : 14 March 2013 19:07:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
martinw

Good question. Not sure, to be honest. I know that the Trust where my wife works has actually moved away from alcohol wipes and mainly use the detergent based ones, just as the Trust that I work with does. Our administration manager orders all of the consumables used and none are alcohol based, to my knowledge. I remember at the Royal Free when I was there a few years ago, that some junior doctors who were of the Muslim faith refused to use alcohol based hand cleanser due to religious reasons, but that was really a misunderstanding of the action of the cleanser, as none of it was really absorbed, which was the objection. I also remember that in some policies that I have read from different Trusts, that two minutes is advised as the time to be allotted to allow the alcohol to evaporate once a wipe is used to clean equipment, and that could potentially have a bearing. Time is money. I am sure that Chris Packham and Ian Blenkharn will be on soon to give their expert opinions.
User is suspended until 03/02/2041 16:40:57(UTC) Ian.Blenkharn  
#3 Posted : 14 March 2013 19:28:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian.Blenkharn

Alcohol is often rejected for reasons of safety - mainly when there is a risk of accidental or deliberate ingestion, so not common, not used and/or restricted for staff use only and behind a permanently locked door in secure psychiatric units and in prisons. In the former, ever liquid soap and non-alcohol based hand rubs might be ingested so these too are inaccessible to patients except under direct supervision. Alcohol products are withdrawn sometimes because of requests by those with religious objection, but more often by those getting twitchy about possible religious objections. There are some high level religious leaders who have come out to say that it is a) externally applied and b) for healthcare purposes so is perfectly acceptable, but there are many more who maintain their objection. neither alcohol not alcohol-free products are going to work on soiled hands. Use one or several LARGE FRESH tough hand wipe clothes to clean hands and finish off with a proprietary hand rub product. Chose a professional one and not a high street supermarket brand as the product will be far better, often by a factor of 10 or more. Having cleaned hands, use enough hand rub to cover the hands and wrists, forearms if necessary. How much to use? Well, not one cutesy little squirt on dinner plate sized hands of some hoary old construction worker because her hands won't be adequately sanitised by that inadequate dose. The few studies that have been done point to a rule of thumb that you should use enough to fill one cupped hand! Some hand wipe cloths are antibacterial, so there may be no need to use both products. Choose a quality product, make sure that they are in-date, and in stock sizes that do not dry out long before the pack has been consumed. Close the lid after use. Why are you concerned about 'contaminated hands'? What bugs are you trying to eliminate, and why? Are these just dirty hands, in which case the tuff-wipes should surely suffice if soap and water are unavailable. But if contamination and the need to sanitise soiled hands really is an issue, wear suitable gloves. Learn when to put them on and how; learn also when to take them off, how, and how to dispose of them. Then wash hands or use a tuff-wipe of two. Use an additional hand rub type product if you want, but don't get hung up on it. And if you represent a larger company that is under scrutiny from the Environment Agency with regard to waste disposal, take care with empty hand rub containers. They do seem to enjoy making mischief and expect that these are classified as hazardous waste. Concern may be raised due to the alcohol residues they may contain even when 'empty', the siloxane additives of some products, and if they really want to be troublesome - other more earthy adjectives are available - the biocide residues that are present in some formulations, especially those without alcohol.
chris.packham  
#4 Posted : 15 March 2013 08:27:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

I would just add to Ian's comments a few thoughts: 1. I would be reluctant to consider the use of wipes for skin cleansing as anything other than a short term approach. The use of skin wipes always results in some residue being left on the skin as there is no proper rinsing process. Some of the residue may be substances that are skin sensitisers with a resultant risk of an allergic reaction developing. In addition in time this can lead to an accumulation of sub-clinical irritant damage with the resultant risk of irritant contact dermatitis. At best these are a temporary solution with hands being properly washed (and moisturised) as soon as possible after their use. 2. It is possible to provide hand washing facilities in most situations. There are manufacturers who can provide portable hand wash stations, even ones that can be fitted into vans. 3. When considering alcohol rubs I would recommend you look at the ones that produce a foam. The gel type products tend to leave a film on the skin that with frequent use accumulates to create a sticky feeling whereas the foam types do not, although the good ones will still have a moisturising effect. 4. I do not normally recommend the use of the non-alcohol sanitisers as the active in these is frequently an irritant and sensitiser. The concept that the alcohol sanitiser can cause skin damage is also not valid. This came about because health care workers were applying the sanitiser to hands already damaged due to excessive hand washing resulting in a stinging sensation. It was assumed - wrongly - that this was the alcohol sanitiser causing skin damage. There was an article in The Clinical Services Journal some time ago that dealt with this. There is abundant evidence that good quality alcohol sanitisers to not cause skin damage.
User is suspended until 03/02/2041 16:40:57(UTC) Ian.Blenkharn  
#5 Posted : 15 March 2013 11:23:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian.Blenkharn

Do not rely on any "evidence" from the Clinical Services Journal. This widely read commercial publication does NOT publish peer-reviewed scientific or clinical evaluations. It might be of some passing interest but the information in its pages, often quite basic and written at a low level, does not provide evidence for anything. It is not written with and is certainly not published with the same rigour of a scientific journal - though it might sound good! The authors might be experienced in their field, but the publications are never more than a very simplistic overview. Some publications are paid - I've written a few for sister publications - or sponsored by manufacturers. Clinical Services Journal is a trade- or commercial publication in which any article is there solely to give substance to an array of advertisements. If you want evidence, go to an authoritative textbook, medical or scientific journal. It's often a good read, and provides a useful listing of suppliers etc, but do not rely on the Clinical Services Journal any more than you would rely on a newspaper publication.
chris.packham  
#6 Posted : 16 March 2013 08:27:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Perhaps I should have mentioned in my posting when referring to The Clinical Services Journal that the article in question was one that I was asked to write as a review of the dermatological evidence regarding alcohol and alcohol free sanitisers. I only mentioned this so that anyone who wanted more on this topic could access information that obviously I could not include in a posting on this forum. Incidentally, this article has received positive feedback from a number of leading dermatologists.
boblewis  
#7 Posted : 16 March 2013 10:30:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

There are a number of waterless cleansers on the market that are simply wiped off with paper towel so I would choose these rather than skin wipes.. In general I prefer to avoid alcohol based materials simply on the basis of skin drying. Alcohol is a long established conservative skin cleanser in the NHS hence its continued use, I believe. Bob
malcarleton  
#8 Posted : 16 March 2013 15:28:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
malcarleton

Maybe I'm going off topic a bit here, but there was a case recently of a worker suffering burns to his hands as a result of using an alcohol based hand wash prior to sparking up a cigarette (And his hands) so maybe the preference comes from that angle
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