Afternoon all, I was informed by a colleague that there was a referendum poll on the IOSH website but I have been unable to find it. Can anyone shed any light on this?

Just had a thought on this and not sure if anyone will be able to answer. If Scotland votes yes to independence in September what will the impact be on health and safety legislation as it stands? Will an independent Scotland stay with the UK legislation or will the Scottish Government have to approve their own legislation?

Thanks Ciaran. I had never thought of what impact the independence referendum may have in this sense and as I work in general compliance covering h&s, environmental and employment it could be a nightmare.

Honestly, I can't see too many issues arising.

On a more mundane note How many Scottish members will become foreign nationals with a YES vote?

JWK

But who is to say an Independent Scotland can join the EU. Spain will certainly be against such a move because of the Catalan situation. Other EU members have problems with specific nationalistic communities within their borders such as Macedonia and Greece etc. Scotland leaving the UK and still being able to join the EU would be a dangerous precedent if allowed entry.

Bob, agreed to an extent, though Macedonia is a somewhat different kettle of fish. Scotland may not be able to join immediately, but I don't think if they wished to join they would be prevented indefinitely, and probably not for long. Still, I'd rather live somewhere where the governing institutions embraced the concept of Europe.

Colin, nothing wrong with wanting to be an independent wealthy state like Norway but remain within the EU, maybe if they used the examples of Finland or Denmark the comparison would be clearer,

John

Thanks Ciaran, I did some more searching and found details on the local branch pages. It has now closed but no results available as yet

I would expect that all of the legislation would remain until gradually replaced by new "Scots Acts".

The comments regarding Scotland's status in the EU that contributors have made are unhelpful. The fact is that all 5.3 million Scots would remain citizens of the EU, on account of dual nationality if nothing else. (Whether the rUK would remain in the EU post-2017 is conjecture.) It is citizenship that determines the status of the individual. Much has been said of accession periods prior to EU entry via the mainstream press, although this ignores the fact that Scottish laws, economy etc have been tailored to the European model for the last 40 years, and therefore an accession period would serve no useful purpose. Might I remind all that 16 million citizens of the former East Germany became EU citizens, without an accession period, despite having been part of a failed communist state. An administrative entry procedure is envisaged to permit the formalisation of Scotland as an EU country.

Mention has been made of Catelonia. This is a Spanish province, and is not a country by definition. My understanding is that the Spanish government sees Scotland and Catelonia as two different situations and has no objection to Scotland becoming a member of the EU provided that lawful processes are followed.

Interestingly, the duty to set up Scotland as an EU member rests with the UK, since only UK ministers have the power, similarly with currency, in the event of a yes vote.


IOSH members who work in Scotland may wish to familiarise themselves with the Barnett Formula, currently used to determine the size of the Scottish budget. There are some issues regarding the maintenance of Barnett in the event of a no vote. This is particularly relevant for those members in the public services.

I realise that those not resident in Scotland may not feel to engaged with this, but some of us who are have been 'working the issues' for a while.

Last year Scottish Govt. civil servants ran a series of stakeholder meetings (invitation only!) each covering one area that's currently reserved. I was among those who attended the one on H&S - several other IOSH members were there too. It was a worthwhile exercise, including a session inviting us to 'imagine' how we would set things up it we had a clean sheet. There's a follow-up meeting next month, so we may hear more?

One hot topic for me is how major hazard facilities would be regulated, on- and offshore, as I judge it's unlikely Scotland alone would ever have sustainable specialist resources to devise the legislation and inspect against the resulting standards for the very wide range of issues that are involved. At the IOSH Holyrood reception to commemorate Piper last year the SNP Energy Minister told me they would just maintain the current arrangements. But since then I've heard other possibilities being raised.

Re the poll, it was organised by one Branch but I've heard the way it was done (by another organisation) meant the results were not suitable for publishing.

In contrast to what many have said - I think there could be significant impacts (positive) if the YES campaign succeeds.... I believe there is a genuine 'Scottish' ethos of fairness that is simple absent from UK politics at the moment. I cannot see a Scottish Govt of any persuasion getting away with the kind of trivial tripe that Cameron and Milliband have been coming up with about red tape, removing burdens, exempting self employed removal of 'breach of stat duty' claims through ERRA and so on and so forth. I suspect Scotland's approach to H&S (and care for vulnerable members of society in general) would rapidly diverge from the increasingly common-man-hostile and uncaring approach adopted at Westmonster.

The yes group and SNP say that a new Scotland would become nuclear free.

I wonder what the 1000s of employees at Faslane (Nuclear sub base & Scotland's largest single site employer) and Coulport (Nuclear missile storage facility 2 miles away) will make of that?

Plus, where will the subs and their support infrastructure go? Its nonsense and will never happen, and demonstrates one out of many scare stories doing the rounds to persuade Scots which way to vote

It's worth looking at the mechanism for bringing an indy Scotland into existence, since some folk are unaware.

In the tabloid-world, the process goes like this:

Scotland physically detaches itself from the rest of Britain, drifts across the North Sea and joins up with Spitsbergen. Scottish Ministers then have to sort out a currency whilst dealing with supranational issues, such as the EU.

In the real world, a yes vote is a request for UK Ministers to establish Scotland as an independent state. The duty to establish a currency and deal with the EU is a (non) problem for them. All this would take place in the glare of international publicity, with politicians behaving at their best. That way, from day one of indy, Scotland has a currency plus its supranational arrangements sorted out. No borders due to the common travel area.

Legally, Scotland's share of UK debt is zero, its legacy state pension obligations are zero, and its obligation to house WMD is zero. Obviously, there is a negotiation to be had here, and I would expect that an agreement on currency union would follow since those zeros would not be to the liking of HM Treasury.

What is useful is to have a view on the "no" future. I would invite comment from the forum. Would it involve the maintenance of the Scottish budget, currently determined via the Barnett Formula? What about the right to strike? What about continued membership of the EU?

Something to think about, as the referendum is just around the corner. Thanks.

"They should then have there own currency, own everything and not leach off us English who have carried them for centuries"... And that, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, is why so many in Scotland are currently deciding to vote yes. The combination of arrogance and ignorance on display is positively breathtaking.

Now now boys, play nicely.

Just to nail my colours.......

I am Scottish, Scottish to the core of my being. My parents are Scottish, my grandparents were Scottish.
I live in Wales, I haven't lived in Scotland for about 30yrs. My parents both still live there as does my brother, nephew, aunts and uncles and cousins. Just because I live somewhere else doesn't make me less Scottish.

If Scotland votes yes I will still be Scottish, a no vote doesn't change that. I don't have a vote but would be very sad indeed if we weren't all part of the UNITED Kingdom on 19th September.

As this topic is mainly concerned with non-H&S issues, we have decided to lock it against further contributions.

Moderating Team