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bmdexter  
#1 Posted : 04 December 2015 07:57:44(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
bmdexter

One of our leaders organised a Team Building away day which including Go Karting. There was full safety briefing and training prior to the start. During the event one of our team member was driving the Go Kart and collided with the barrier. This resulted in the person sustaining a broken ankle.
Question - Is this reportable under RIDDOR by our company as a work related accident?
RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 04 December 2015 08:17:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Ha, a good question which will no doubt solicit a number of different responses.

Common sense tells me this is not a RIDDOR because it's not a work related activity and people were undertaking this activity of their own volition. Now it could be argued that because the event was organised by the employer in work time it is a work related activity. So, my next question is whether the HSE would be interested in this type of injury - the answer is no.
jay  
#3 Posted : 04 December 2015 08:56:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

We have several "Team Building Events" involving "games" etc that are deemed being at work as it is not voluntary and during work time, i.e. it is not an optional social. It is indeed risk assessed and if there is an "injury" , even if it is not a "RIDDOR", it counts in our statistics. Best to confirm it with HSE??
Steve Granger  
#4 Posted : 04 December 2015 11:52:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve Granger

It was an away day - work time. I presume they had no option to attend but did have an option to partake. This is work - ie the employer has decided what tasks the employee should do and will pay them to do it. The minutiae of were they on a frolic does not apply here in my opinion.

There is a bigger issue - who should report? The events company (yes) and / or the visiting employer (possibly check that it has been reported as duplication is not required. We also have the question of accident books and investigations etc.

As Jay says - had it been on the social noticeboard 'who wants to go joyriding...' different story.
N Burrows  
#5 Posted : 04 December 2015 11:54:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
N Burrows

It is unlikely that HSE will be interested because this type of premises will fall to the Local Authority for enforcement in most cases.
A Kurdziel  
#6 Posted : 04 December 2015 15:34:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Well I think it is reportable as it happened in company time and was organised by the company etc etc. The point about it being a local government responsibility is a red herring. ALL RIDDORS need to be reported on the HSE system; they pass on the details to the relevant local authority if it is within their jurisdiction. The issue of whether it turns up in your accident stats is down to you. Collecting RIDDOR stats is not a statutory responsibility, it is usually done to comply with some benchmarking scheme. Reporting a RIDDOR (this has been said before on this forum and I’ll say it again) is NOT an admission of liability or corporate failure. This case if the LA investigate, they will most likely go after the company organisation the event.
Finally are the HSE interested in this sort of accident: probably not, in fact they are probably not really interested in any accidents their main concern is one of simply of surviving on a reduced budget under government that does not really care.
fairlieg  
#7 Posted : 04 December 2015 16:24:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
fairlieg

I don't think it is reportable by the employer

What is meant by ‘work-related’?
RIDDOR only requires you to report accidents if they happen ‘out of or in connection with work’. The fact that there is an accident at work premises does not, in itself, mean that the accident is work-related – the work activity itself must contribute to the accident. An accident is ‘work-related’ if any of the following played a significant role:

the way the work was carried out
any machinery, plant, substances or equipment used for the work or
the condition of the site or premises where the accident happened

http://www.hse.gov.uk/ri...nitions.htm#work-related

it may be by the hosting business though reg 3 (1)(a)(ii)
A Kurdziel  
#8 Posted : 05 December 2015 16:59:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

the way the work was carried out
any machinery, plant, substances or equipment used for the work or
the condition of the site or premises where the accident happened

Does not just apply to a factory setting let’s say. In this case it could also apply to how the event with go-karts was organized including the sort and level of training that the participants had, the state of the karts, and the state of the track where the event took place. So yes RIDDOR might apply. The principle duty to report the incident would be down to the company organising the event but participants’ employers should also report it.
mikecarr  
#9 Posted : 07 December 2015 08:30:32(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mikecarr

bmdexter wrote:
One of our leaders organised a Team Building away day which including Go Karting. There was full safety briefing and training prior to the start. During the event one of our team member was driving the Go Kart and collided with the barrier. This resulted in the person sustaining a broken ankle.
Question - Is this reportable under RIDDOR by our company as a work related accident?


Maybe but i think it should be reported by the go kart people. There were no failures in your systems so if the LA were to investigate you what would they investigate? They would be better off investigating the go kart company to ensure their safety standards are up to scratch and it's related to their undertakings not yours


RayRapp  
#10 Posted : 07 December 2015 09:39:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Mikecarr wrote:
bmdexter wrote:
One of our leaders organised a Team Building away day which including Go Karting. There was full safety briefing and training prior to the start. During the event one of our team member was driving the Go Kart and collided with the barrier. This resulted in the person sustaining a broken ankle.
Question - Is this reportable under RIDDOR by our company as a work related accident?


Maybe but i think it should be reported by the go kart people. There were no failures in your systems so if the LA were to investigate you what would they investigate? They would be better off investigating the go kart company to ensure their safety standards are up to scratch and it's related to their undertakings not yours





Playing Devil's Advocate, how do you know there were 'no failures in your [employer] systems'. What level of training was provided before the person was allowed to use the go-kart? Were they assessed as competent - for example, was an eye test undertaken?
mikecarr  
#11 Posted : 07 December 2015 10:01:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mikecarr

if they are using a reputable & established go karting company ( I assume they were). A full safety brief was given then what else do you want them to do? Eye Tests?? The DM would have a felid day with that one!
DP  
#12 Posted : 07 December 2015 11:58:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
DP

Not reportable from the employers perspective - however from the entertainment company's - did this result in the IP being taken directly to hospital from the premises?
bmdexter  
#13 Posted : 07 December 2015 13:02:25(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
bmdexter

Thanks for all the replies, I have recorded it in our accident stats. But wanted to clarify the RIDDOR requirements so I contacted our HSE Inspector, his response

"In my opinion it is not a work related activity therefore it should be for the owner/operator of the karting premises to report".
Guyzy1982  
#14 Posted : 07 December 2015 13:17:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Guyzy1982

I would suggest, RIDDOR by the go-karting team.

Away day in my opinion is just that, a day away from work, although this can be argued that its in work time, its not an accident at work.

RayRapp  
#15 Posted : 07 December 2015 13:36:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Mikecarr wrote:
if they are using a reputable & established go karting company ( I assume they were). A full safety brief was given then what else do you want them to do? Eye Tests?? The DM would have a felid day with that one!


Mike, I was being a bit naughty based because of your premise it was not the employer who was at fault.
heathrow  
#16 Posted : 23 December 2015 13:33:43(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
heathrow

Mike,

Reputable and established go karting company(I assume they were)?

Perhaps therein lies what else could/should be checked?

Interesting topic - wonder who the injured party might seek recompense - not that there may be a case here at all.
bob youel  
#17 Posted : 24 December 2015 12:01:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

a proper investigation is needed with more info supplied on this site before a valued answer can be given

as for the HSE's response - "------it should be for the owner/operator of the karting premises to report"-----. if it was in no way a work related event then why should the HSE say that the operator report it?

Invictus  
#18 Posted : 24 December 2015 12:13:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

It's got to be the Go Karting company, just because the event was organised by the company, and he was on pay he would of still been a member of the public in the true sense at the go karting and he went straight to hospital.
HSSnail  
#19 Posted : 24 December 2015 14:42:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

For me just highlights the problem with RIDDOR. The old guidance use to state that RIDDOR was not about blame it was about an a prescribed injury occurring out of work activity. For me on a team building day you are at work (no choice in being there or taking part). But under the current guidance we have to look at where the fault lay was it in the company selection of where the event took place or the company running the event. That used to be what the enforcement body (HSE or LA) would look at. For me it just highlights that RIDDOR everyone looks for a reason not to report, because reporting is almost an omission of guild or wrong doing. RIDDOR is no longer fit for purpose and a total review should be taken. Not just tinkering around the edges as happened last time to try and reduce reported stats!
RayRapp  
#20 Posted : 26 December 2015 22:00:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

heathrow wrote:
Mike,

Reputable and established go karting company(I assume they were)?

Perhaps therein lies what else could/should be checked?

Interesting topic - wonder who the injured party might seek recompense - not that there may be a case here at all.


I know in other sporting pursuits the courts are reluctant to hold others responsible for sporting injuries based on the volenti principle. Ok it could be argued it was a work-related activity, however they would still have to prove negligence either by the employer or go-kart company.
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