Morning Darryl,

As a relatively new member, I have also been surprised by the comments on the current state of the H&S market.

Looking through the posts it isn't necessarily a geographical issue. I wondered then if this is down to either: sector - I know industries like steel, etc have been hit hard; or perhaps level - Some of the posters who are decrying the state of H&S are in more senior level positions. I know a few organisations who have "downgraded" the H&S role during restructures, from a senior position to a more middle management standing. Therefore the number of opportunities at this level are being reduced.

Just having my two-penneth. I would be interested to see what others think.

I've said this in other posts along a similar thread, i don't see there being a lack of H&S jobs. There's plenty out there and a quick search of the usual places plus LinkedIn and alike throws up numerous vacancies. My observation is however that the salaries on the whole are quite poor and are more suited to early to mid career professionals - which would tie in with the comments around senior positions being a little more thin on the ground. An ageing safety professional demographic I suspect will bring more 'senior' type roles in the future, but at present I don't see there being a general H&S role shortage - I think people need to sometimes take on a slightly less than perfect role to open up other avenues which they wish to pursue.

I am based in the South, I can say my phone and email accounts have been quite busy recently with Agencies looking for H&S Advisors and more interestingly the Principal Designer role, I may be lucky to hold a design qualification and IMAPS, along with my H&S qualifications, but love where I work, so won't be moving on anytime soon!

Well its nice to know you folks within an easy commute of the inner M25 are beating them off with a stick.

Question is, do they pay enough to even keep my whippet alive?

But could you?
What I'd get for my northerly hovel would not pay for the whippet's kennel down south.

You'd get a pretty nice house in Brighton for £350k and it's an hour on the train from London. Yes, if you're moving to the Home Counties you'll pay more but you don't need to move there to have access to good jobs. We have Gatwick Airport just 30 minutes from Brighton.

Personally I don't live in Brighton, I am further along the South Coast eastwards, but Brighton has a load of jobs and good access to other areas and, of course, it's on the sunny south coast with excellent access to the continent.

You don't have to have a "poor work/life situation/moving into a small box house etc in the south" in order to live there, you just need to look a bit more closely.

Which may explain why the OP can't get suitable candidates

As far as I can see the north/south issue is not particular to H&S. But perhaps it does answer the question posed at the beginning:

There are plenty of H&S professionals out there, but they have all moved north because its cheaper. As a result the North of England is now flooded with H&S professionals...

Sorry, I was being flippant. I do realise it is not that cut-and-dry.

Unfortunately, I also noticed a lot of positions in London (in particular construction related) offer 'expenses' as opposed to a company car / car allowance as most of the projects are in London.

I also love the recruitment ads that stipulate 'must have access to own vehicle' in other words, the position requires a vehicle (an item of work equipment fundamental to the role) but, we will not provide you with one!

Other gripes: you cannot seem to discuss some roles over the phone etc., they need you to apply formally and then offer you an interview (often many miles away, at short notice and difficult to facilitate) when actually, all you need to know at this stage is: what is the 'flipin' package or pay range so I know whether to apply or not!

Sorry to hijack the thread!

I am in South East and there seems to be a shortage of qualified and experienced people for the middle to higher end health and safety positions.

Yes - a lot as always in London. I have worked in London but prefer to stay outside as I hate the early mornings and late evenings. I am about an hour away from Victoria and the last time I looked the season ticket was around 4K ( although need to offset this against the 1.5K I spend on petrol each year).

I have also noticed a few Admin level jobs coming up - good for those just getting on the health and safety ladder.

I'll echo RayRapps comments ref travel by road.

I think the infrastructure in the south is overloaded and needs radical improvement in places.

My daily journey to the office is 25 miles - this normally takes an hour but often goes to 1.5 hours and even 2 by car! The last mile or so is a line of traffic that takes 30 minutes to shuffle forward. And this is rural Kent not London. The train links are poor in places - I'd need 3 trains to get to my office so public transport is not an option.

Obviously some journys of this distance take a great deal less time down here but you need to be aware that time and distance don't always seem to be direct relations.

Simon

I think the 'Maslow' principle would apply to all jobs and not those just in 'elf and safety. I have downgraded my job (allegedly!) because I no longer need to chase high wages. A friend of mine was the UK director of a multi-national company and has done the same by getting a lower paid role with a smaller company.

The fact is with high wages comes big responsibilities and loads of aggravation...had my fill of the latter. Indeed I wonder if so many top end jobs on the market are vacant because h&s people are not willing to be a punch ball any longer.

I don't think we can assume that everyone in the world is exactly the same with the same values, outlooks and needs.

Some want to carry on working until they keel over, some want to ease down towards retirement. Some want the high powered job and everything that goes with it, some want jobs which are less well paid but less stressful.

Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs is about self worth, self esteem, self actualisation - it's not about what works for everyone. There are generalisms of course, about personal needs, safety and behaviour which could be argued both on a general scale (which is the only way you can judge it) I think we would all pretty well agree that:

PHYSIOLOGICAL NEEDS
If you don't eat and drink - you die
If you get too cold - you die
If you never rest - you die

This has to be the fundamental basics of life. Maslow is not saying that you can do without love and belonging, but you certainly won't die from not having them.

I do not understand the premise that a terminally ill person is not capable of being spontaneous and creative. Just because they are terminally ill, it doesn't meet that they have not achieved self-actualisation.

Again, just because someone has reached a specific age and financial security does not mean they are not career hungry - perhaps they have not achieved self actualisation and are still striving for it.

Personally I have - I have nothing to prove to anyone - I'm happy with my life, happy with what I have achieved (Chartered Member)- I've just finished the L3 Award in Education and Training and if I never had to work again that would suit me as well.

Some live to work, others work to live, ultimately if we have achieved our personal goals (whatever they may be) then what else is there left but to enjoy life?

Hilary , that is the first time I have seen Maslow mentioned outside of the many courses I have attended

Exactly. But is H&S Market flooded with people??

But not quick enough, so yes there are too many chasing too few jobs.

I think it depends on the kind of skills the recruiter wants. I've always had problems recruiting in voluntary sector care providers for example; never been able to interview more than two or three out of several dozen or more applications. I think it's like everything else, there are many more general H&S jobs in more traditionally safety minded sectors, but many more people chasing them. In specialist sectors there are very many fewer jobs, but they're hard to fill.

And I know that theoretically any safety person can do any safety job, but given the choice of somebody with sector experience and somebody without, who would you choose?

John

it is all depends on what skills set you looking for and what is the candidate background requirement, in general, majority of people now have diploma, degree and CMIOSH but seems that do sent solve your issue, then either your industry is very specific and majority of the candidates could not be in your scope... but in overall industry is overwhelmed with OHS practitioners and mostly with certificates in their hands only ...

ShV

My first published article [after a lot of research] on the north / south job divide was ~20 years ago and things have not really changed noting that the recession is still very much with us irrespective of what TV etc. say and the employment scene has changed with traditional industry replaced and a very low wage high profit economy practiced with lots of people queuing for each job and the enforcers doing nothing

I believe that there are jobs out there but there are many hurdles, on top of those aready noted, in the way to include lack of competence/knowledge by employers, agencies and HR in particular thus candidates are on an up hill struggle before they start and additionally people already in place want to protect their own backs so sometimes take on less able staff so they continue to look good plus lots of H&S people do not necessarily know about business or have other skills to bring to the table and the biggest problem of all is the fact that there has been an organised downgrading of the profession

best of luck to all who are looking for work