Rank: Super forum user
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I found when I was looking for work there wasn't a great deal available to those new to the arena like myself. Not having X amount of years experiences played against me a hell of alot and often I wouldn't even get a call back because of this. I changed my CV to reflect what experience I did have to back up my quals and got more interviews, went for an interview for one position and didn't get it because I didn't have up to date experience in the sector, had an interview with the same company (different department but still health and safety) and will have been here a year in April. My job title includes trainee- I'm happy with this as I'm learning as I am going- but it would be nice to see more of starting rung positions with a fair wage for those starting out.
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When I was 25, I found it a lot easier to move around in the job market as many employers see you as *mouldable* to suit their way of working.
When you've got 30+ years worth of work experience and you're trying to change your career in later life, it gets that much harder.
HR don't seem to get the concept of transferable skills any more, and let's not even mention the gate keepers aka recruiters.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Curiously, I gained the Diploma in 2015 and am verging CMIOSH (god willing!) but it hasn't changed my earnings at all! However, it probably will change my 'employability' somewhat but definitely has changed my depth of understanding of H&S!
Salary aside it was worth it! Better still - come Sept when I will've paid the darn thing off!
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Rank: Forum user
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SP900308 wrote:Curiously, I gained the Diploma in 2015 and am verging CMIOSH (god willing!) but it hasn't changed my earnings at all! However, it probably will change my 'employability' somewhat but definitely has changed my depth of understanding of H&S!
Salary aside it was worth it! Better still - come Sept when I will've paid the darn thing off!
Good luck with that.
I thought doing my professional diploma - prof dip (SHEM) would help, as that led me to Graduate status. I won't even start on trying to explain that qualification to employers/recruiters (It doesn't use NEBOSH!).
I'd love to start my IPD but A) can't afford it and B) I haven't got a project big enough to work on.
I'm still paying off my qualifications too, and it's quite galling knowing how much money I've spent and haven't yet earned enough to pay them off.
It's interesting that IOSH have posted a number of articles regarding mental ill health on Linkedin, a few of which I've commented on, as I'm a huge champion for good mental health.
Constantly looking for work/researching companies, going for interviews (more expense) and then waiting for the outcome of the interview. When you're then turned down, you have to gee yourself up again for the next round, this can have a huge impact on your mental wellbeing.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Nikki, difficult to know what to say but I do sympathise. I'm sure you would have already done so but, I'd advise seeking professional support with both the job hunting and the mental health challenges you are currently facing.
I wish you all the luck and hope the outlook seems much more positive in the coming weeks (in line with the sun coming out!).
Simon
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SP900308 wrote:Nikki, difficult to know what to say but I do sympathise. I'm sure you would have already done so but, I'd advise seeking professional support with both the job hunting and the mental health challenges you are currently facing.
I wish you all the luck and hope the outlook seems much more positive in the coming weeks (in line with the sun coming out!).
Simon
Thanks Simon, I appreciate that.
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Rank: New forum user
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I applied for a position in the South West (Swindon) for a well known supermarket chain and was astonished when they said they had over 800 applicants !!!
Looks like there are more than enough H&S professionals in my neck of the woods.
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Rank: Super forum user
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icalderhead wrote:I applied for a position in the South West (Swindon) for a well known supermarket chain and was astonished when they said they had over 800 applicants !!!
Looks like there are more than enough H&S professionals in my neck of the woods.
To be fair, if i had the qualification to cover that job, i'd be applying as well. Good starting wage leading to a very good wage.
used to deal with that 'chain' when i was in Logistics and if you are good enough you will progress quickly, and the wage they are offering will come.
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Rank: Forum user
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icalderhead wrote:I applied for a position in the South West (Swindon) for a well known supermarket chain and was astonished when they said they had over 800 applicants !!!
Looks like there are more than enough H&S professionals in my neck of the woods.
Doesn't actually mean H&S professional applicants though. It sounds like the graduate programmes posted every year by big company names. I wonder how many thousands people with whatever degrees apply for engineering positions. As such, I am 100% sure that most of them are not H&S related, but have had somewhere, somehow expertise in the sector.
Like Hally said though, sometimes you see something like: No previous experience required as you will be trained for the role, aka, please flood us with CV's.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Agree with Mr Curious that numbers of applicants says nothing about the suitability or quality of the applications.
The last time I advertised for a H&S role (2013) we stipulated minimum of GradIOSH or able to apply immediately, plus experience (not necessarily in H&S role) of the health & social care environment. I got about 85 applications. I was able to shortlist three, on the basic criteria listed above. We got lots and lots of construction/industrial/armed forces experience, and lots of people with a NEBOSH cert, but only three had the right level of IOSH membership and experience in the sector we wanted.
Goes back to my earlier post about the perceived market depending very much on the sector you're advertising in,
John
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Interesting thread,
I'm not a regular poster but drop into the forum from time to time and like to comment when I can. I'm currently recruiting and can summarise that although there are candidates in the marketplace - relevant experienced (Construction, London, field based for my needs) candidates are less so. Its never that easy to identify levels of candidates/jobs in the marketplace as there are so many fields of expertise and locations to cover. One thing I have noticed is that recruiters can be a bit lazy and forward on unsuitable candidates which can lead to a bit of frustration. Salary is always a factor as mentioned by others and needs to satisfy the basic needs of life and lifestyle however, work/life balance is also very important. As a London based worker my journey (door to door) is a minimum 1 hour and sometimes longer if visiting a project location. This all needs to factored in. Finally the C word - competency! Qualification is one element and most candidates seem to hold a general or construction certificate however relevant specific knowledge and experience to actually do 'day job' is what I am looking for in a candidate (or at least similar / transferable knowledge). Construction alone is a diverse sector - you can spend 40 years digging holes or installing windows, principal contracting or sub-contracting so just having experience in construction is only part of the story.
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Rank: New forum user
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Quote=Mr Curious] icalderhead wrote:I applied for a position in the South West (Swindon) for a well known supermarket chain and was astonished when they said they had over 800 applicants !!!
Looks like there are more than enough H&S professionals in my neck of the woods.
Doesn't actually mean H&S professional applicants though. It sounds like the graduate programmes posted every year by big company names. I wonder how many thousands people with whatever degrees apply for engineering positions. As such, I am 100% sure that most of them are not H&S related, but have had somewhere, somehow expertise in the sector.
Like Hally said though, sometimes you see something like: No previous experience required as you will be trained for the role, aka, please flood us with CV's.
To be fair, I don't think I was at the level that particular supermarket chain were looking for despite the fact I have a NEBOSH General certificate amongst the many other H&S qualifications and currently studying for my diploma. I also work for a rival and substantially larger supermarket chain in their distribution centre and have done for the last 5 years so it's not as if I don't have the experience to do the job and do it very well having gained amongst other things both RoSPA Gold and ISO 9001,14001 & 18001 in 2015.
I guess with the salary they were offering they were bound to get flooded with applications but I did think I might have been in with a chance of getting at least an interview given it's right on my doorstep but hey ho, you win some you loose some. Looks like I will just have to continue to commute the hour to work and hour home for the foreseeable future.
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Absolutely we have advertised on numerous sites, with in excess of 130 applicants interviewed 6, found one and still have vacancies but the level of applicants is very poor.
Why do people believe 2 months here, 20 weeks there mainly in policing roles on engineering construction projects is what employers are looking for.
Competency! Qualifications most candidates hold a general or construction certificate however relevant specific knowledge and experience (in construction as supervisor or manager) to actually do the job' is what we are looking for. And as other posters have said we get FLT drivers, warehouse operatives, legally qualified persons, teachers etc etc.
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Rank: Forum user
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Of course there could also be a problem of how some of the job adverts are actually written - if some aspect is genuinely essential to fulfil the role then say it is essential - if you say it is desirable then don't be too surprised if you get applicants that don't fit your bill.
Equally it does sometimes seem (speaking from a recent applicant's point of view) that some people advertise to see what level of candidates will apply for a role - again if you don't clearly state what you want / need - you will most likely get loads of 'unsuitable' applicants.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I used to love the job adverts that stated you must have experience in this industry. However because the recruitment company sanitise the ad to prevent them being circumvented it would not state anywhere what that industry was.
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OP - the market may be flooded, but are the right people out there??? competent....
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If there are so many posts why am i having difficulty finding a job. I am a AITT registered truck trainer on many typse of equipment. I have self funded my Nebosh NGC and FC certificates and now studying for my Diploma. At the moment i am not used for health and safety role only training. Have applied for so many roles and out of the hundreds applied for only three replied. I am getting to the stage that i want to throw it all away and count my losses. Cannot even get a volenteer role as no one replies.
Some one tell me where im going wrong before i give up. will save money by not being a Tech member.
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Rank: Super forum user
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It can be a hard slog- any opportunity that arises in your work with regard to health and safety, add it into your CV, no matter how small, and tailor your CV and letters of application to show you want a health and safety role. When my first health and safety contract was nearing the end in March 2015 I redid my CV to suit a health and safety type role- I had more call backs and interviews, and in 2 weeks time I will have been in my new role a for a year. You could consider admin/ junior type roles too- my first role was admin/ PA work. It is also about showing you know your limit.
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danhardy wrote:If there are so many posts why am i having difficulty finding a job. I am a AITT registered truck trainer on many typse of equipment. I have self funded my Nebosh NGC and FC certificates and now studying for my Diploma. At the moment i am not used for health and safety role only training. Have applied for so many roles and out of the hundreds applied for only three replied. I am getting to the stage that i want to throw it all away and count my losses. Cannot even get a volenteer role as no one replies.
Some one tell me where im going wrong before i give up. will save money by not being a Tech member.
If you PM me your CV I would be happy to offer suggestions.
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The jobs are there, but like others in my experience, candidates make it all too easy for me to bin their applications by not having addressed the key criteria stated in the job advert within their covering letter and CV. As employers we know what we want but we are not mind readers - if you don't state your relevant experience or give us some indication of what value you are going to add to the business then you are not likely to get an interview
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wjp62 wrote:OP - the market may be flooded, but are the right people out there??? competent....
I am not convinced employers want the best, CMIOSH is a gold standard and is frustrating when I see positions- especially in the public sector - under £35K looking for Tech IOSH.
I went for 2 positions in 2014 in Dorsetb and was told - informal trusted feedback was that I didn't get positions because they reported to HR and they wanted someone to say 'yes'. Their preconceptions of H&S were a clipboard and risk assessments....
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Rank: New forum user
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Yes, we have found difficulty recruiting in the Midlands area. There seems to be plenty of people who want to gain experience but limited numbers of experienced consultants who could adapt to different environments.
Perhaps it is a geographical thing?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Dean Howells wrote:Yes, we have found difficulty recruiting in the Midlands area. There seems to be plenty of people who want to gain experience but limited numbers of experienced consultants who could adapt to different environments.
Perhaps it is a geographical thing?
Maybe the package you are offering is not up to scratch
Or your company has a certain reputation
I'm not suggesting either are true by the way.
If I feel like a laugh (my job hunt days are gone thank god) I often read the job adverts, some of which are just taking the...........
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Rank: Super forum user
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A recent job sent to me for consideration
Safety engineer required - 15yrs+ experience, MSc required/Chartered Engineer, HAZOP/HAZID/SIL/LOPA experience. Setting up safety management systems, meeting Def Stan 056. Project management. Client facing etc.....
I could go on, but you get the gist of the level of experience required.
Should be noted NOT oil and gas, so this isn't a factor of low oil prices.
All for the magnificent salary of £38k
And people wonder why people won't go into engineering. Why did I bother with exams and university??
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Rank: Super forum user
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Generally the salary for H&S personnel is very poor in comparison to other professional grades. When you do get into the better salaries they want, as identified previously, all the qualifications under the Sun. Chartered status is worth very little in terms of salary, only the kudos and that does not pay the bills.
Fortunately I am not so far away from retirement, financially comfortable and so don't have to chase big money. It is my view that prospective employers do not value a good h&s person, as a rule they could not care less what experience, knowledge, qualifications you have - only whether you are prepared to settle for a frugal salary and take all the cr@p which goes with it.
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Rank: Forum user
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I believe a lot of mis-perception and mismatch with qualifications / expectations originates from HR people (not all obviously). Having been at the receiving end of the "clipboard and procedure-writing" viewpoint by 'highly qualified' HR people I actually worked with, I was truly astonished when I realised their opinion, and deduced that it was based on the 1980's (when they did their IPD?).
The diversity and potential of a modern practitioner is under-valued, under-recognised and so under the radar. Not even new people coming into the arena get this - understanding the job role is not part of the syllabus at Certificate level, as this has never been really acknowledged as the first career step by NEBOSH. There is now a flood of Cert-level folk scrambling for a job and to gain experience - many from the military, with limited awareness of what the job involves, and how to deliver value to employers / customers. If lucky enough to get a job, will such novices be mentored or supported in how they develop (as I was).
Competency appears to be still judged by 'regulations' and 'management systems' application (clipboard and procedures!).
So how can others change their understanding and expectations?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Bob
I think you hit the nail right on the head.
I have had calls from agencies from people who clearly do not understand your qualifications and experience.
I have also had a couple of interviews lately and found the person conducting the interview (prospective boss) has a lot less qualifications and experience than myself. They immediately go on the defensive when you start talking shop and you see they don't want to employ anyone who is going to show them up.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Well I for one would willingly move out of working in h&s. Trying to do it.
Or if my Lottery numbers came up, willingly retire.... just have to buy a ticket first!!
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Rank: Super forum user
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I live in West Wales in Pembrokeshire, and I commute to Maidenhead every week where I rent a room then travel to the outskirts of London every day, there are jobs if you want to travel and live away from home
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