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darryl.morgan  
#1 Posted : 09 May 2017 14:05:10(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
darryl.morgan

I haven't been on here for a while, and was just catching up with some of the topics. One of the things i have noticed that in a number of the topics people are saying the H&S market is flooded with people; i am finding that this is not the case, we have been advertising two roles in the London area and have found the quality of applicants coming through is very poor. We have advertised in SHP4Jobs and posted with 4 recruitment agencies to no avail. We advertised for a role we had in the SW and had lots of applicants many of whom i would have considered for the role. Have any of you found this issue that its a very different story across the country in terms of the availability decent of H&S professionals?

walker  
#2 Posted : 09 May 2017 15:12:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Are you offering the going rate for the region?
lorna  
#3 Posted : 10 May 2017 12:18:41(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
lorna

When I was searching for work in the North West, I was told (quite seriously) by more than 1 agency that I would have to move to London. So perhaps the answer is that there should be more jobs outside the capital because there are definitely people looking in other areas.

RobFitzmaurice  
#4 Posted : 10 May 2017 12:46:32(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
RobFitzmaurice

Originally Posted by: walker Go to Quoted Post
Are you offering the going rate for the region?

I've seen some health and safety jobs advertised in the London area which pay no more (occasionally less) than elsewhere in the UK. I'm not sure what incentive anyone would have to take these jobs when commuting/relocating/cost of living in London is taken into account.

jwk  
#5 Posted : 22 May 2017 09:16:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

It seems to me to depend very much on your industry. We advertised in January for a post; we're a very large humanitarian charity with extensive and varied operations in the UK. We got lots of applicants but most of them just wanted to work for us as we have one of the best-known names of any NGO, not because they had any experience or qualifications in H&S (they hadn't). Of the approximately suitable ones, we managed to find 6 to interview. Three showed up and two did really well at interview (the third did well but was outshone by the other two). We appointed succesfully.

If it had been a construction or industrial job we might have been overwhelmed, I don't actually know, but in our little corner of the employment market we struggle to find talent,

John

Edited by user 22 May 2017 09:17:09(UTC)  | Reason: Clarity

RayRapp  
#6 Posted : 22 May 2017 20:00:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Anecdotally there seems a large amount of h&s positions available when checking websites like SHP, IOSH, etc. Just they way it is I guess. Whether there is a shortage candidates or prospective employers are not willing to pay the going rate I could not say. However, it has been my widely held view that h&s practitioners are generally underpaid given their qualifications and responsibility; they are definately under valued - but I would say that!

Retiring in 10 months so I don't give a hoot!   

thanks 2 users thanked RayRapp for this useful post.
WatsonD on 23/05/2017(UTC), Melrose80086 on 20/06/2017(UTC)
hilary  
#7 Posted : 23 May 2017 07:44:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

The money out there is either fantasticly good or shockingly bad.  You can get a job paying £45k-£60k or a job paying £20-£22k but a mid range, mid responsibility job paying about £35-38k is sadly lacking imho.

thanks 1 user thanked hilary for this useful post.
lorna on 11/07/2017(UTC)
Faysafetyconsultants  
#8 Posted : 01 June 2017 09:35:24(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Faysafetyconsultants

I can not say what its like in England but I know in Ireland the jobs been advertised have terrible pay. With a degree and 10 years experience, I expect to be offered alot more than a graduate, but unfortunately companies don't feel the same. Thats why I find it's alot more rewards doing contract work on a hourly or daily rate. 

aud  
#9 Posted : 01 June 2017 09:46:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
aud

Originally Posted by: hilary Go to Quoted Post

The money out there is either fantasticly good or shockingly bad.  You can get a job paying £45k-£60k or a job paying £20-£22k but a mid range, mid responsibility job paying about £35-38k is sadly lacking imho.

One of the main recruiters, James Irwin, has said the same, based on real-life expereince of the market,  just in the last few weeks.

chris42  
#10 Posted : 01 June 2017 09:47:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: Faysafetyconsultants Go to Quoted Post

I can not say what its like in England but I know in Ireland the jobs been advertised have terrible pay. With a degree and 10 years experience, I expect to be offered alot more than a graduate, but unfortunately companies don't feel the same. Thats why I find it's alot more rewards doing contract work on a hourly or daily rate. 

Take a look at the latest IOSH mag for salary survey (however not split by geographical area). If you look at most job adds in the real world you can take at least £10k off those numbers IMHO

gerrysharpe  
#11 Posted : 01 June 2017 09:50:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
gerrysharpe

I'm pretty Lucky i guess i've just completed my NVQ Level 7 in Senior Construction Mangement and find it far easier getting a Construction managers position with more pay.  The H&S Diploma comes in handy as does my Temp works coordinator cert. But You earn alot more as a Site Manager than you would do as a Safety Manager.

So thats what i'm now doing, Its a shame but i don't think companies value H&S proffessionals as much nowadays, They only become Valuable when theres been an accident!

thanks 1 user thanked gerrysharpe for this useful post.
bencroxford on 07/12/2017(UTC)
RayRapp  
#12 Posted : 01 June 2017 10:53:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Hi Gerry

I have to concur with you, many other 'management' roles are much better paid than h&s roles. With my cynical hat on what does this say about organisations' priorities? Perhaps with the level of fines now metered out by the courts this may change over time. Not soon enough for me though because I have only 9 months to go before retirement - Yippe!  

thanks 1 user thanked RayRapp for this useful post.
gerrysharpe on 03/06/2017(UTC)
freelance safety  
#13 Posted : 01 June 2017 15:33:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
freelance safety

I think we had a similar discussion about this some years ago when the old site was up and running.

RayRapp, retirement sounds wonderful, I can’t wait until I can afford to do that… if I don’t die an old git first…rofl…!

I also think some people are very much underpaid and that quite a few agencies/employers take great advantage of the situation.

That said I guess I work at the top end of the scale and have worked for and with some of the largest projects and high profile clients in the UK – I guess I’ve been fortunate.

I think the lack of prosecutions and enforcement beyond FFI has led to many companies to place health and safety as the ‘add-on’ factor to their businesses. This is not just the SME’s but even major companies, many don’t have any in-house professionals.

This is quite a shift from when I commenced back in the very early ‘90’s when you could just jump from one job to the next.

The culture has also changed, as a test (and marketing strategy) this year I organised an IOSH WS free event, everything paid for including lunch and certification. I sent this out via my company server with the e-flyer and did some marketing to nearly 3000 contacts I have within the UK.

That was several months ago and I’ve had two enquires to date – note not actual bookings…lol. So I dropped this cold potatoe. I have spoken to some of my regular clients (some are household names) to ascertain the lack of response.

Most are reluctant to send staff away for whole days (even though some can actually claim rebate money back). Others genuinely believe it’s not really essential for their staff to have health and safety training anymore. So I believe that the social culture has actually changed towards health and safety within the workplace?

I guess larger fines could help if we saw more enforcement (Prosecutions, IN’s & PN’s etc.). Insurance companies don’t seem to bite their clients like they use to, which was another motivator for some organisations.

  

 

 

thanks 1 user thanked freelance safety for this useful post.
webstar on 15/12/2017(UTC)
Stuart Smiles  
#14 Posted : 02 June 2017 17:49:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Stuart Smiles

recruit people outside london them skype for meetings etc as appropriate or travel for a few days home and few in office/hotel 

north east has lots of capable depending on what you want who could be down if required. 

depends on what you want, people aren't going to compromise quality of life for "london baby" as it's too expensive to live, travel's a pain and can add hours onto day for no benefit. 

if you want capable people, suggest look at life balance, perhaps part time & people who have kids & need flexibility - do you have regional offices?

don't know your needs/market but that's what i'd suggest. 

where are sites? issues? interview people /meetings? does it need to be in london or can get there if needed,

finding the right organisation is important, but if we believe in looking after people, then perhaps need to let them be based further away. 

personal opinion, don't konw what you need, perhaps could help, but live in sunderland. 

Swygart25604  
#15 Posted : 10 July 2017 13:35:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Swygart25604

I've been looking for a new role for quite a while now (having now found one, I hasten to add) and I'm based in the North West. Like Lorna said, there always seemed to be plenty of roles in London and very few where I needed one. Shirley Parsons turned up diddly squat in the last 3 years. But speaking as an ex-Londoner (well, that was 30+ years ago now), who actually wants to work there, as everyone is alluding? Quality of life and work-life balance are pretty key for a lot of people.

You don't say what industry or sector you are looking to recruit for, but in all probability, manufacturing people are probably very good generalists and maybe due to the lack of manufacturing in the London area, you are struggling to attract quality candidates? Just a thought.

thanks 2 users thanked Swygart25604 for this useful post.
lorna on 11/07/2017(UTC), webstar on 04/01/2018(UTC)
Fraser38932  
#16 Posted : 06 December 2017 14:57:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Fraser38932

Hmm to me the problem is what a HSEQ Professional can earn. You can get paid to do the same job anywhere in the UK, but the cost of living in london most expensive in the UK. Unless you live in london, it might be difficult to get people to work for you.

I found the more north you work in the UK competition for jobs gets more ridulaous interms of numbers. The industry that I work in, its not uncommon to see 30 to 100 + applicants. It is getting really tough out there now & I would class myself as being very experienced now.

For any newbie, I would look to try and get involved in employment in another role, then try and get some exposure to HS that way.

john

jwk  
#17 Posted : 14 December 2017 10:00:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Just re-read my previous post and I can add this. We recruited again in August this year, big NGO, exciting opportunity, reasonable money (30K plus London weighting if applicable), flexible UK location. We got about 50 applicants this time, most of them (this time around) had at least some H&S knowledge or experience, managed to shortlist 6, three bothered to show up, two were very good, one wasn't a good fit, we recruited succesfully. So once again, we seem to have difficulty finding talent rather than being overwhelmed with high-quality applicants,

John

Ian Bell2  
#18 Posted : 14 December 2017 11:09:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

Therein lies the problem. Whether based in London or not - £30k reasonable money. Really!! Which planet is your organisation on? Cost of living increasing all of the time etc.
jwk  
#19 Posted : 14 December 2017 12:14:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

It is reasonable Ian, sorry, when the median salary is £28K for all employees, paying an adviser a little bit more than that, plus 6% employer's pension contribution, is reasonable. It benchmarks well with other similar organisations, with a similar risk profile. I've seen some adviser roles paying more, and some paying less, but given the duties, responsibilities and accountabilities it's about right for the sector. I know the cost of living rises all the time, that's why we have annual uplifts, something else we can offer which not all employers can,

John

Woolf13  
#20 Posted : 14 December 2017 12:49:47(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Woolf13

Given that the median is the number separating the higher half of a data sample from the lower half and the recent survey conducted by IOSH in 2017 for the following roles stated:
Safety and health assistant: £28,000–£41,000
Safety and health officer: £31,000–£49,000
Safety and health consultant: £30,000–£53,000

Therefore stating the median is £28k is incorrect because this discussion is about health and safety professionals salaries not employees in general which may have a median of £28k.

Dependant on the sector and skills, knowledge, training and experience of the individual for a mid-level H&S role the pay range is between £35k - £40k including package, pension etc. Obviously there should be an increase for work in London as you could effectively wipe out a large portion of that for cost of living etc.

The recruitment market appears to be awash with positions at the moment, but finding the correct fit for an individual and an organsisaton is difficult.

Unfortunately as previously mentioned the salaries for H&S professionals historically and currently sits below that of say a site manager or project manager. Maybe this is down to the perception that a H&S professional does not make an organisation any money (which we all know is incorrect in terms of what we save by implementing suitable controls etc.). The majority of companies do not appear to recognise this, maybe due to the short term outlook as opposed to long term vision.

I would like to think recent changes to the sentencing guidelines will influence a change of mind. However, my personal opinion is that the days of the "pure" H&S role are numbered and it is about diversifying our roles and what we can offer. Those that are most adaptable to change and all that......

Roundtuit  
#21 Posted : 14 December 2017 19:44:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

And therein lies our achilles heel in the salary market - our contribution to an organisation cannot be accurately measured it is all in the smoke & mirrors of "what if".

Thankfully the sentencing guidelines are starting to provide some serious consideration in the higher echallons and we may finally transition from the cost to benefit side of the balance sheet.

Ian Bell2  
#22 Posted : 15 December 2017 08:29:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

Only people looking for their 1st break into h&s would work below market rate. If any sense, will do a short time and get a bit of experience and move onto a better paid job.
jwk  
#23 Posted : 15 December 2017 10:16:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

I deliberately took the median for all salaries, it's not an error. The salaries listed by the IOSH survey don't include 'Adviser', though it is quite true that titles in our game are very misleading.

And Ian, I'm afraid that our experience is not that we are only attracting people at the start of their careers. Our two newest recruits are both people with a long and senior history in H&S, one Chartered and one Grad, both of whom have also had enforcement roles in the past. I also am inclined to think they will stay. People have complex motives for choosing an employer, and have taken many different routes to where they are now in their careers.

I am quite convinced we pay the market rate, the problem is not the pay for us, it's getting people with the right attitude and experience; that is specific experience in our sector. It's not like construction or engineering; salaries may be lower in the 3rd sector, but the skills we need are quite particular,

John

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