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biker1  
#81 Posted : 26 March 2020 12:30:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

I am struggling to understand the people walking around outside wearing face masks. What do they hope these will do? Despite official advice that there is little evidence that they will achieve much unless you have the virus yourself or are caring for someone with the virus. If you have the virus, you shouldn't be out and about anyway, but there are hysterical people out there who think the masks are needed. They aren't, and the section of society that does need the masks is the NHS. We do have a real problem in supply, as official advice is to wash hands regularly or use sanitiser, but this is becoming difficult as panic buying has depleted supplies of hand wash/soap and sanitiser. I haven't seen any of these products in shops for at least a couple of weeks. Come back coal tar soap, all is forgiven.

thanks 4 users thanked biker1 for this useful post.
RVThompson on 26/03/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 26/03/2020(UTC), Kate on 26/03/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 27/03/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#82 Posted : 26 March 2020 13:41:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: chris.packham Go to Quoted Post
Ray - could it be that the parents are drinking at home in order to retain their sanity?

The parents will certainly be appreciating that teachers really do need those holidays

thanks 1 user thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Kim Hedges on 27/03/2020(UTC)
nic168  
#83 Posted : 26 March 2020 15:11:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
nic168

Biker, I have had a couple of Face book post looking for people to make fabric masks for hospitals- Ibelieve they originate in USA.

I have also had one from the UK, the thinking behind that one is that wearing a mask will make you less likely to touch your face. remind people to keep a safe distance and minimise splatter from your coughs and sneezes.

Not sure about this, but I have a pattern handy just in case there is a general call to get wearing your own mask.

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Kim Hedges on 27/03/2020(UTC)
Kate  
#84 Posted : 26 March 2020 16:28:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Thoughtful article "Coronavirus: Why some countries wear face masks and others don't" here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-52015486

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
Kim Hedges on 27/03/2020(UTC)
chris42  
#85 Posted : 26 March 2020 16:44:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

So, have all these doctors and nurses etc, been told they must be clean shaven? :0) And is there a restriction in shift length to accommodate the 5 o’clock shadow!

Its normally a problem

Interesting article from Kate, as well as the issue with masks, it was also suggesting that those who seem fit and healthy could also have it. So those essential construction workers on the same train as Medical staff etc, could be doing a lot of harm. Most construction projects are late, so would a few weeks make that much difference, provided people are looked after financially.

Mind you a lot of companies are showing their true colours at the moment.

Chris

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A Kurdziel on 27/03/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 27/03/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#86 Posted : 26 March 2020 16:53:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: chris42 Go to Quoted Post
So, have all these doctors and nurses etc, been told they must be clean shaven?

http://forum.iosh.co.uk/posts/t129750-A-matter-of-faith

In North Pennine NHS trust they were.

thanks 1 user thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Kim Hedges on 27/03/2020(UTC)
Huberto1984  
#87 Posted : 26 March 2020 18:04:44(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Huberto1984

All, 

I am looking for some advice regarding 2m distancing.

We are producing products for medical market, therefore we must work to provide supplies for those fighting with the virus. What are practical measures which can be used to ensure people stay 2m away from each other and what other measures should be introduced if for certain tasks this 2m separation distance can't be achieved? 

We already introduced number of control measures as recommended by WHO and our government, but knowing infected person can infect others before symptoms occur raises concerns. 

Any commets/opinions and ideas would be very much appriciated. 

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Kim Hedges on 27/03/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#88 Posted : 26 March 2020 18:24:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

If "our" government is the UK then there is the wording " where possible" Last nights BBC news showed an NI sportswear manufacturer sewing medical scrubs - sewing stations did not appear to be 2m plus separation
thanks 1 user thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Kim Hedges on 27/03/2020(UTC)
Huberto1984  
#89 Posted : 26 March 2020 18:38:11(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Huberto1984

Thank you for quick response. 

Yes, it is UK. Any practical measures to esnure 2m distancing? Or do we rely on instruction given to employees, supervision etc? 

If 2m distancing is not possible do we need aditional PPE for those task to comply with HSAWA? Like masks, visors etc? What do you think? Any legal advice o this matter on forum?  

NHS don't do it for unknown reason and giving the risk of contracting virus is high it is strange for me. 

Regarding BBC, ITV and so on I have seen number of programs "how it is made" etc. where machines are not even guarded properly and they put hands inside so I would not take it as a reference what they show us in TV. 

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Kim Hedges on 27/03/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#90 Posted : 26 March 2020 20:14:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Lets start from a basic level because it appears my explanation is not clear.

A news item on a main public service broadcaster (the BBC) is NOT the same as a pre-recorded documentary style programme on a digital broadcaster.

The example was highlighting that in the current circumstances a sportswear company has switched from its normal product range to supply the NHS but continues to operate WITHOUT a fixed 2m segregation.

If people are at work and essential the employer should be ensuring that no one with symptoms is present.

No symptoms = no need for PPE

For the NHS they have no choice as the sick WILL be present (we only go to hospital when we are unwell) and so you see the PPE masks and visors.

If you are a medical supplies company you will already have in place HACCP and GMP (in which case you will not need these acronyms explaining) which will further control potential employee exposure.

thanks 1 user thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Kim Hedges on 27/03/2020(UTC)
Huberto1984  
#91 Posted : 27 March 2020 08:29:05(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Huberto1984

Hi, thanks for response, but it is still not black and white for me. 

Infected person can infect others without knowing i.e. when no symptoms occur. Therefore, we can't in some situations segregate those already infected showing no symptoms from other workers. 

Is risk of infection foreseable in the current situation? Yes.

Is it significant? Probably yes knowing 4-5% tested die-it will be lower for non vulnerable groups. 

Probably using risk assessment approach and hierarchy of control measures governmet introduced 2m distancing to all of us to reduce spreading the virus. Not only to those who show symptoms or NHS. This is administrative control measure. 

Therefore, if this 2 m rule can't be achieved, I was wondering if we should introduce other measures to ensure H&S of our employees. I understand this is unusual situation, but normally we use all reasonaby practicable steps to reduce risk. This include PPE. 

It seems to be strange for me that we don't take PPE into account at all when 2 m rule can't be achieved, but there may be a good reson for that which I am not aware of. 

Thank you for help Roundtuit. Your comments were very useful.  

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Kim Hedges on 27/03/2020(UTC)
rockfish  
#92 Posted : 27 March 2020 08:49:22(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
rockfish

Hi All, perhaps I've missed it, but where is the discussion about a lack of sensible risk assessment in relation to some public-facing operations (specifically in the retail sector)?  I think we're all pretty clear that non-face-fitted respirators (especially from questionable on-line retailers) are up there with chocolate tea-pots, but does anyone have a view on why, for example, builder's merchants insist on staying closed when HMG advice is for them to be open whilst ensuring social distancing?  IMO we have to be focussed on both dealing with the current issue but also making sure that we come out of it the other side in some reasonable form to begin to service the excruciating levels of debt that have been taken on.  Are such retailers using the 80% salary security blanket to shut-up shop, and yet again are we seeing 'elf and safety' used inappropriately to justify ill-informed risk aversion? 

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Kim Hedges on 27/03/2020(UTC)
Louise Bamford  
#93 Posted : 27 March 2020 09:43:01(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Louise Bamford

Morning

scenario ... two carpenters on a construction site required to hang fire doors (two persons required due to weights). They cannot work 2m apart. PC is insisting work must continue else breach of contract issues kick in..... 

A risk assessment is required to state that they can continue to work, wear their usual PPE, follow hygiene measures etc, albeit within 2 m???  If I produce arisk assessment to this effect, allowing them to hand the doors, am I hanging myself here or have we done all that is reaosnably practicable to reduce the risk?

What are your views on this please? 

Edited by user 27 March 2020 09:47:28(UTC)  | Reason: spelling

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Kim Hedges on 27/03/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#94 Posted : 27 March 2020 09:55:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

1) What about mechanical devices to enable a single carpenter to conduct the task?

2) What about selecting staff who are direct family members and/or live in the same residence?

2) Given the unique situation of a pandemic is such a considered or extraordinary circumstance within the terms of the contract?

3) Remember the guidance states "where possible"

thanks 1 user thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Kim Hedges on 27/03/2020(UTC)
Huberto1984  
#95 Posted : 27 March 2020 12:51:06(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Huberto1984

Knowing even or Prime Minister has been tested positive for Coronavirus it gives clear picture how effective is distancing at work or how dangerous lack of it is. 

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Kim Hedges on 27/03/2020(UTC)
Kim Hedges  
#96 Posted : 27 March 2020 13:22:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

I didn't post here on Thursday 26th, I was a bit depressed, but that didn't mean nobody died from covid19, another 119 people died before their time. 

Today, Friday, an American friend on facebook sent me a description of what covid19 is and how to combat it;

Johns Hopkins University has sent this excellent summary to avoid contagion, share it because it is very clear:

* The virus is not a living organism, but a protein molecule (DNA) covered by a protective layer of lipids (fats) which, if absorbed by the cells of the ocular, nasal or mouth mucosa, changes their genetic code. (mutation) and converts them into multiplier and attacker cells.

* Since the virus is not a living organism but a protein molecule, it is not killed, but decays on its own. The disintegration time depends on the temperature, humidity and the type of material in which it is found.

[Note Ocean Princess docked a couple of days ago, medical personnel found evidence of the RNA of the covid19 still on the walls and doors of the cabins, 17 days after the infection spread through the ship.]

* The virus is very fragile; the only thing that protects it is a thin outer layer of fat. That's why any soap or detergent is the best remedy, because the foam BREAKS THE GREASE (that's why you have to rub so much: for at least 20 seconds or more, and make a lot of foam). By dissolving the fat layer, the protein molecule disperses and breaks down on its own.

HEAT melts the fat; then use water above 25 degrees to wash your hands, clothes and everything else. In addition, hot water produces more foam which makes it even more useful.

* Alcohol or any mixture with alcohol greater than 65% DISSOLVES ANY FAT, especially the external lipid layer of the virus.

* Any mixture with 1 part of bleach and 5 parts of water directly dissolves the protein, breaks it down from the inside.

* Hydrogen peroxide helps a lot after soap, alcohol and chlorine, because peroxide dissolves the proteins of the virus, but you have to use it pure and it hurts the skin.

NO BACTERICIDES. The virus is not a living organism like bacteria; one cannot kill with antibiotics what is not alive, but rapidly disintegrates its structure with all that has been said.

* NEVER shake used or unused clothing, sheets or clothing. While it is glued on a porous surface, it is very inert and disintegrates only between 3 hours (fabric and porous), 4 hours (copper, because it is naturally antiseptic; and wood, because it removes all moisture and does not let it detach and disintegrates), 24 hours (cardboard), 42 hours (metal) and 72 hours (plastic). But if you shake it or use a duster, the virus molecules float into the air for up to 3 hours and can settle in your nose.

Viral molecules remain very stable in external or artificial cold like air conditioners in homes and cars. They also need moisture to remain stable and especially darkness. Therefore, dehumidified, dry, warm and bright environments will degrade it more quickly.

* UV LIGHT on any object that may contain it breaks the virus protein. For example, to disinfect and reuse a mask is perfect. Be careful, it also breaks down collagen (which is a protein) in the skin, eventually causing wrinkles and skin cancer.

* The virus CANNOT go through healthy skin.

* Vinegar is NOT useful because it does not break the protective layer of fat.

NO ALCOHOL or VODKA. The strongest vodka is 40% alcohol and you need 65%.

* LISTERINA (it's an American mouthwash) IF YOU NEED IT! It's 65% alcohol.

* The more space is limited, the higher the concentration of the virus. More open or naturally ventilated, less.

* You need to wash your hands before and after touching the mucous membrane, food, locks, knobs, switches, remote control, cell phone, watches, computers, desks, TV, etc. And when using the bathroom.

* You must HUMIDIFY DRY HANDS, for example wash them a lot, because molecules can hide in micro wrinkles or cuts. The denser the moisturizer, the better.

* Also keep your NAILS SHORT so that the virus doesn't hide there.

Edited by user 27 March 2020 13:24:07(UTC)  | Reason: Grammar

thanks 2 users thanked Kim Hedges for this useful post.
biker1 on 30/03/2020(UTC), nic168 on 01/04/2020(UTC)
Kim Hedges  
#97 Posted : 27 March 2020 14:17:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

After reading all the posts, my understanding and observations are probably not that different from most of the people contributing.

The 2 metre distancing value is simply a guide, like the Pirate Code.  People can transfer the virus by touch and that includes your clothes brushing past other people. 

The 'where possible' clause is typical UK Gov fudging.  Personally speaking, those seamstresses may need assistance to move their machines, so that they are not on top of one another, spread out the work.  INCREASE the VENTILATION too.  (I spent a short time in the rag trade.)

The lock down order declared by the UK Government to STAY AT HOME, should not be viewed appealed with 'how can we get around this order'. 

As far as I understand it, an order from the Government to STAY AT HOME, supercedes all previous contracts and understandings.  So just because a contract was made previously to build, construct, do whatever, is made null and void following an order, not a request, an order, to STAY AT HOME. 

It is not just you that is at risk of infection and carrying the disease, but the next person you interact with, it could almost be viewed as manslaughter and murder if you carry on regardless.  I'll let God decide. 

NHS staff need to wear full PPE, with at least the World Health Organisation standard, because the LOADING is so much greater.  Staff will be coming into contact with sick people and people who may have covid19 or be carriers, far more than any other part of a typical workforce that does not come into contact with sick people. 

The Loading factor is why so many medical workers are now suffering worldwide, because of this critical loading, although they were protected with PPE, the virus build up reached a critical point for them.  That's why 5000 medical personnel are sick with it in Italy.

Yes ordinary flu kills vast numbers of people every year and every other disease has not taken a break.   

A supermarket that suddenly says 'we can't supply you goods', after they have been ordering previously, is simply making excuses to avoid making the delivery due to the sheer numbers that have increased in the last month.  Probably due to your geographical location, cities and large towns maybe fine, but further afield or out in the sticks, you are probably going to lose out again.  So change your supplier if it's possible. 

I'm sorry, but I was tickled pink to hear the PM has got it, 2 months wasted, dithering, ignoring the W.H.O. guidance on disease control, and now the horse has bolted. 

Maybe this covid19 is a watershed moment in British political history, I do hope so. 

Sorry, if I missed a question or observation. 

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RVThompson on 27/03/2020(UTC)
RVThompson  
#98 Posted : 27 March 2020 14:25:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
RVThompson

I'd like to think it will be a global change of thinking.

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nic168 on 27/03/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 28/03/2020(UTC)
Kim Hedges  
#99 Posted : 28 March 2020 20:19:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

Saturday evening, 28/3/20.   260 deaths reported in last 24 hours, 1019 total deaths in Britain.

Spain is currently around the 5000 mark of Deaths and Italy has passed 10,000 Deaths.

News from Europol, criminals everywhere are taking advantage of the C19 lockdown – as expected, with greater rates of cybercrime, scams and as yet an undiscovered amount of burglaries of premises closed for the duration.  Other crime in Bristol has included arson involving food delivery vehicles left parked up in insecure parking – so asking for trouble even before C19 appeared, just seems worse now.  

Meanwhile normal people are making the best of it, with over 750,000 British people volunteering for community work to assist with shopping, collecting medicines or simply to talk to the high risk group of people or those already suffering the effects of C19.

Other good news stories are around, but I know of one personally, my Boss of ANR Specialists Ltd has lent out the fleet of pickup trucks to the community in Swansea to assist in the distribution of food and medicines.

Now that Covid19 (C19) has basically taken over all the news reporting, nothing has been covered about the people who were flooded out in Wales and England just 2 months ago.  Remember the House of Commons, MPs begging for funding to address both the aftermath and asking for flood relief schemes to be put in place urgently.  I only know of Bridgwater getting their Tidal Barrage approved where the River Parrett joins the River Severn.

I went food shopping yesterday, I went earlier, as my local Tesco wanted the vulnerable group to have an hour alone between 0900 and 1000.  So I got there at about 9.15, there was a switchback operating in the carpark, with cones and barrier tape marking the long queue path, with 2 metre markers on the ground.  I watched them for 10 minutes before getting out of the car and figured NO, it’s too cold to queue at that speed, so I went home.  It’s Friday, I usually have Fish and Chips on Friday, I check their website.  Ah they closed on the 24th.  I returned to Tesco’s about 4.30 pm, the queue was a lot shorter, so I grabbed a trolley, had some disinfectant sprayed on the handlebar and joined the queue, 20 minutes later I was shopping, whilst keeping my distance from everyone else, I was not a good Samaritan, I kept my distance!  Notes of the shelves, limiting 3 items, works for me, I only needed 1 or 2 items each.   Not much beer left, no Whiskey.  Grabbed one pack of Corona, wondering what it tastes like.  Meat, butter, cheese OK, no eggs again.  No Hand wash soap again.  Ah they have a few packets of Paracetamol, I grab a pack.  No Tissues again.  No Toilet rolls.  OK, that’s enough, look for a till, great there’s one, mention the Corona to the checkout girl, and she says she likes Corona.  Get it back to the car and away.  Not bad I figure, about an hour, driving home, the roads are deserted, usually see 20 to 30 cars at that time of day.  Tesco Pizza tonight for a change.  I try not to think of the drama unfolding around the country and the world, I fail, and how many tonight I wonder?

achrn  
#100 Posted : 29 March 2020 11:35:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Originally Posted by: Kim Hedges Go to Quoted Post

As far as I understand it, an order from the Government to STAY AT HOME, supercedes all previous contracts and understandings.  So just because a contract was made previously to build, construct, do whatever, is made null and void following an order, not a request, an order, to STAY AT HOME. 

It would be if the government did such a thing, but as yet they have not - they have repeatedly said, for example, work at home if you can, but business doesn't need to shutdown.  The law they have passed does not contain an order to stay at home, it says stay at home unless you have a "reasonable excuse", and then lists all sorts of things that are reasonable excuses, including going to work.

The government very much wants to have its cake and eat it - they want everyone to stay at home and they want buiness to keep operating.  When those things are contradictory, they need to state clearly what they actually want.  Just repeating two contradictory things and then making non-specific veiled threats (which are basically 'if you don't do what you're told you'll be for it') when people don't know which contradictory thing they are supposed to be doing is not helpful.

It may well be that some people are going out more than they should.  That's not at all the same thing as claiming there's an absolute order from the government not to go out. The law just does not say that.  The guidance just does not say that.

Quote:

It is not just you that is at risk of infection and carrying the disease, but the next person you interact with, it could almost be viewed as manslaughter and murder if you carry on regardless.  I'll let God decide. 

I don't believe simply leaving your house in these times meets the test for manslaughter.

I don't believe God cares about the UK legal system definition of manslaughter, either.

Quote:

A supermarket that suddenly says 'we can't supply you goods', after they have been ordering previously, is simply making excuses to avoid making the delivery due to the sheer numbers that have increased in the last month.  Probably due to your geographical location, cities and large towns maybe fine, but further afield or out in the sticks, you are probably going to lose out again.  So change your supplier if it's possible. 

Actually, people in towns are probably no better off.  I live in a moderate size town within 20 miles of central London.  I can't get a delivery from any supermarket either (even though we've pre-paid for deliveries with one of them).  There just aren't enough delivery slots to go round.

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Kim Hedges on 30/03/2020(UTC), aud on 03/04/2020(UTC)
biker1  
#101 Posted : 30 March 2020 12:47:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

A brief trip to the local Tesco a couple of days ago. Tape and barriers all over the place, to the point where I couldn't work out how to get in, or how to get out again. Instructions to stay where you are inside until the person in front of you moves on, perhaps that will curtail the infuriating browsers who spend ages scrutinising products. It's certainly stopped the social gatherings that get in everyone's way.

One hope I have is that this whole crisis will re-focus people on what is important. Not particulary a fan of Piers Morgan, but I do agree with him on this subject. Who indeed gives a rat's **se what Kim Kardashian says? An interesting contrast is the news reports; important items on the crisis interspersed with trivial rubbish on what some so-called celebrity is wearing, or other such nonsense (who are these people anyway, are we supposed to know?).

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Kim Hedges on 30/03/2020(UTC)
chris.packham  
#102 Posted : 30 March 2020 14:16:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Re ~96 - Once again hot water is recommended. Please, no! Water in excess of 38 deg C damages the two microscopically thin layers of lipids in the outermost part of the skin reducing the skin's natural barrier properties. This then makes it easier for any transient micro-organism, e.g. COVID-19, to colonise the skin and be more difficult to remove. So lukewarm water only. 

When applying a moisturiser this should mimc the properties of the surface hydro-lipidic film as closely as possible, i.e. be a lotion rather than a thick cream. Thick creams can actually be occlusive, preventing the skin's trans-epidermal water loss (note, this is not sweat. You are losing water through the skin continuously without this being apparent. With healthy skin you can lose up to 750ml daily). As a result the skin becomes excessivly moist and, as studies have shown, be more easily damaged by chemicals that otherwise would not really be harmful. Ideally, a lotion, applied sparingly - just enough to cover the skin without leaving it feeling sticky. This should be applied every time the hands are washed to help the skin retains its barrier properties.

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Kim Hedges on 30/03/2020(UTC), nic168 on 01/04/2020(UTC), aud on 03/04/2020(UTC)
Melrose80086  
#103 Posted : 30 March 2020 14:59:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Melrose80086

Now into week 2 of homeworking / schooling. 

Have asked teacher if they can post the weekly schedule of activities on either the Friday afternoon or Sunday night (as don't have a printer so writing it out on a monday morning when they post it is a pain when you've a skype meeting scheduled for 10am). Otherwise going not too bad.

Workwise - legionnaires question has raised it's head. We have over 20 sites and plus own several more that are only used once or twice a week. Most staff now working from home (trying to set up 4 sites where one member of staff can print off documents as there's a confidentiality aspect and can't print them off at home). Means the other sites are closed so now trying to work out how we can keep the risk of legionnella appearing if there's no-one to flush the loos / run the taps for 5 mins. Trying to arrange for a staff member that is within walking distance to check on the building once a week and where that's not possible I think we will need to get the systems flushed before staff return (or is there another method we could use that I haven't thought of / other companies employing atm?). 

Also can't help think that we're storing up a generation of kids that will develop OCD / agoraphobia in the future. Had to buy hand cream for DD (10) before the schools closed as her hands were a mess from all the hand washing her teacher was making her do every day. It's settled down again as she's in the house so not washing them as frequently and applying the cream but dread her going back in the autumn as she was crying in pain and didn't want to go that last Friday they were open. She also had a panic attack last night (something she's never had before) about what would happen if either of her parents got Covid19 or her 2 grannies got it [background - she's lost both her Grandfathers and her dog within the last 3 years so the fear of losing another family member is very real to her]. She's a sensible and intelligent wee lassie but it breaks my heart to see her struggling. She's also terrified that a holiday we have booked for next year will be cancelled as it's a BIG holiday and her Granny is going to so she's worried that we won't be able to go or that her Granny might get sick when we're away. I'm trying to remain positive when in reality, I've no idea if we'll get to go or not. 

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Kim Hedges on 30/03/2020(UTC)
Kate  
#104 Posted : 30 March 2020 15:16:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Here is some advice from Mind about looking after yourself in these difficult times.

This one is for adults:

https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/coronavirus-and-your-wellbeing

This one is for young people:

https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/for-children-and-young-people/coronavirus/coronavirus-and-your-wellbeing

jwk  
#105 Posted : 30 March 2020 15:18:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Originally Posted by: Kim Hedges Go to Quoted Post

I didn't post here on Thursday 26th, I was a bit depressed, but that didn't mean nobody died from covid19, another 119 people died before their time. 

Today, Friday, an American friend on facebook sent me a description of what covid19 is and how to combat it;

Johns Hopkins University has sent this excellent summary to avoid contagion, share it because it is very clear:

* The virus is not a living organism, but a protein molecule (DNA) covered by a protective layer of lipids (fats) which, if absorbed by the cells of the ocular, nasal or mouth mucosa, changes their genetic code. (mutation) and converts them into multiplier and attacker cells.

Hi Kim, sorry but this is a widespread piece of fake news. Some of it is good advice, some of it is not. You can tell it's fake because anybody claiming this level of supposed knowledge would know that a) Covid 19 has RNA, not DNA, and b) neither RNA or DNA are proteins, they are nucleic acids,

John

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Kim Hedges on 30/03/2020(UTC)
Kim Hedges  
#106 Posted : 30 March 2020 22:00:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

JWK, That's worrying, what part is real? 

Kim Hedges  
#107 Posted : 30 March 2020 22:04:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

Monday 30th March.

A roundup of Covid19 (C19) statistics, which at the beginning of the year was not really expected, I remember thinking, it was happening in China, not here, nothing to worry about really, besides we have Brexit talks to look forward to and the Budget is in a few months’ time. 

Now nearly 4 Months later we have this:  

Worldwide Confirmed Cases (CC)             770,653

Worldwide Deaths (D)                                    36,396

Worldwide Recovered People (RP)          160,130

 

Italy   (CC) 101,739.  (D) 11,591.  (RP) 14,620.

Spain (CC)   85,195.    (D) 7,340.    (RP) 16,780.

USA    (CC) 156,931. (D) 2,880.    (RP)   5,545.

UK      (CC)   22,448.  (D) 1,411.    (RP)      135.

 

The World Health Organisation have kept advising everyone to since the very beginning to Test, Contact Trace and Isolate those infected.  In the UK, the Government appeared to skip Testing and Tracing and simply watched the disease spread out from China.  It wasn’t until the 20th March that anything changed. 

Now 10 days later, the Government is beginning to catch up and has begun to test more people, although it appears still only 7000+ people, mass testing is yet to occur.  The first temporary hospital has been erected in a shed (Excel Exhibition Building) in London and has 500 beds ready today. 

Meanwhile, companies around Britain have begun to design and redesign existing equipment including Ventilators and Respirators.  (Ventilators take over the breathing, the patient is unconscious, whilst Respirators simply stream air into the lungs and do not require as much medical oversight to the same degree as Ventilators, as the patient is awake and able to move).

Kim Hedges  
#108 Posted : 30 March 2020 22:15:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

I watched BBC News channel Open Source, they reported how President  Trump has finally done the required U-turn in policy on C19, but from listening to this individual openly pat himself on the back in a press briefing was to me, quite sick.  He will be happy to allow 100,000 deaths.  It was explained to him that presently 2 million Americans could die on the present course of policy, hence the U-Turn. 

Whereas, the UK has been aiming at keeping deaths below 20,000. 

Kate  
#109 Posted : 31 March 2020 06:13:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

This article covers some of the issues about fake news:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-51967889

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Kim Hedges on 03/04/2020(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#110 Posted : 31 March 2020 08:55:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

AsAs the lockdown continues and looks likely to go on for some time I think people are going to have to start letting go of somethings.

If you have ground staff you will need to explain to them that keep the grass tidy and the weeds down is no longer a priority.

If most of your staff are gone then First Aid coverage is no longer a real issue

Since you are no longer using the water systems and there is no risk of an aerosol being produced and your air-con has been turned off you can probably give up on the legionella regime. When (if?) you re-open for business then you will need a prepress to start up again in safe manner and that would include looking at the legionella situation but that is for the future.

All of this will of course be based on YOUR risk assessment.

 Right know I’d focus on the here and know and I suspect that for most places the main issue is going to be psychological issues associated with being at home with the family trying to work if you can and not sure what will happen next . Cast your mind back to the first week of March and think what you were doing and thinking about then and what you are doing now: that’s only 4 weeks ago. We will have months of this to get through.

 

Good Luck   the lockdown continues and looks likely to go on for some time I think people are going to have to start letting go of somethings.

If you have ground staff you will need to explain to them that keep the grass tidy and the weeds down is no longer a priority.

If most of your staff are gone then First Aid coverage is no longer a real issue

Since you are no longer using the water systems and there is no risk of an aerosol being produced and your air-con has been turned off you can probably give up on the legionella regime. When (if?) you re-open for business then you will need a prepress to start up again in safe manner and that would include looking at the legionella situation but that is for the future.

All of this will of course be based on YOUR risk assessment.

 Right know I’d focus on the here and know and I suspect that for most places the main issue is going to be psychological issues associated with being at home with the family trying to work if you can and not sure what will happen next . Cast your mind back to the first week of March and think what you were doing and thinking about then and what you are doing now: that’s only 4 weeks ago. We will have months of this to get through.

 

Good Luck  

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Kim Hedges on 03/04/2020(UTC)
biker1  
#111 Posted : 31 March 2020 10:36:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

A bit worrying if some of the information posted by Kim Hedges is fake, perhaps some clarification on this would be useful.

Disgusting reports of people deliberately coughing and spitting at care workers and police. Whilst the majority of people are complying with advice, there are some real idiots out there who really need taking out of the equation. The army has been helping with deliveries of supplies for the NHS, but I think the time has come to put in a wider role for them. Providing security for key supermarkets for one thing, and patrolling to stop the idots ignoring the lockdown for another. I gather that volunteers are required for clinical trials in the push to understand the virus and come up with a vaccine. Perhaps all of the young (and most of them are young) idiots who are clearly unconcerned about catching the virus could be compelled to give something back to society and take part in the trials.

Police being criticised for being over-zealous in enforcing the lockdown - I'd rather it was that way around than the opposite. Using drones seems a sensible thing to me, reducing the risk for officers, but when a top former judge criticises it, we have a problem. The lockdown might seem contrary to our British sense of freedom, but these are not normal times, and we had to put up with some pretty significant restrictions in wartime. Worth noting that authoritarian regimes such as China have had a lot of success in combatting the virus. But when, or when, are they going to outlaw the wet live animal markets that are considered to be the source of the disease?

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RVThompson on 31/03/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 03/04/2020(UTC)
Marble  
#112 Posted : 31 March 2020 11:10:07(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Marble

I seem to remember during/just after the SARS epidemic it was mentioned a lot that the wildlife markets were not a good idea, so I doubt they will be banned any time soon.

I live in a road full of retired people. Most are keeping in. My neighbour doesn't seem to know the difference between "household" and "family" and has his adult son over every day helping in the garden or with DIY. Neighbour opposite seems quite happy with this but insists on filming the resident key worker (food retail) in our house coming home from work! Infuriating as I would much prefer all our family at home and safe as possible.

I'm working from home as far as practical; it's a good time to do CPD stuff and revising but actual work not so easy as our sites are all shut. Likely to be furloughed if it goes on too long I'd guess.

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Kim Hedges on 03/04/2020(UTC)
biker1  
#113 Posted : 01 April 2020 10:25:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

First big shop at the local Tesco last night for a couple of weeks. I was impressed with their hygiene arrangements, separated entrance and exit and sanitising stations by the baskets, trolleys and scanners. Seemed reasonably well-stocked as well, apart from a few things (the sign about restricting items to three per customer did raise a wry smile on the empty handwash shelves).

Latest episode in the Trump folly files is the removal of the emissions requirements on car makers put in by Obama, so pollution levels likely to rise there. Is there no end to the stupidity of this man? He seems to have done an about turn on lockdowns; I suppose even he can't ignore medical advice forever. His proposal to quarantine New York was dropped after their governor stated that this would be an act of war; that could have been interesting.

Noticeable improvement in air quality in the UK. Could this be a wake-up call to all of us? The problem is likely to be the decline in public transport, but bicycle sales are blossoming, so not all doom and gloom.

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Kim Hedges on 03/04/2020(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#114 Posted : 03 April 2020 10:43:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

The thing about this situation is that it is not, contrary to what the Pollyannas are saying making people as a whole better. Instead, they are just becoming truer to their real selves. The majority of people are ok and now are probably a bit nicer but the awkward sods are becoming worse. Some of those police officers and others with an enforcement role, are reaching into their inner fascist and looking to ban everybody doing anything: they won’t be happy until the whole country is locked up. Fortunately they are being called out and told to wind their necks in and to apply a more rational and balanced approach. And before anybody pipes up and says we need a firm approach ask the question do we want scenes like they had in China of people being dragged into isolation and treated like criminals just because they are suspected of being infected?

We now have those puritans who are telling people what they might buy. The government has closed certain types of shop. They have not banned the sale of certain items. If a shop, which is legitimately open, has those items available they are legally allowed to sell them including Easter Eggs and bottles of whisky. If people want to buy plants for the garden I can’t see the problem as long as they comply with the social distancing restrictions. Some people seem to think we need to go back to wearing sack cloth and ashes and eating bread and water for the duration to show the world we taking this seriously. In practical terms of course this makes no difference to the outbreak. It’s not like we can mobilise people who work in garden centres to help combat the corona outbreak. Analogies to the Second World War are not helpful here.

My six year old daughter’s shoes are getting too small her and she will need new summer dresses. We will buy her some; she will not dress in rags and go bare foot  to satisfy someones puritanical ideas.

That was this week’s rant.

thanks 9 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
Kate on 03/04/2020(UTC), stevedm on 03/04/2020(UTC), chris.packham on 03/04/2020(UTC), Sharpe23621 on 03/04/2020(UTC), Connor35037 on 03/04/2020(UTC), marshi on 03/04/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 03/04/2020(UTC), aud on 03/04/2020(UTC), peter gotch on 04/04/2020(UTC)
biker1  
#115 Posted : 03 April 2020 14:46:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

There has certainly been some over-reaction in some quarters, whilst the government have been criticised for under-reacting. On its own, shutting most shops might seem draconian, but perhaps the underlying agenda has been to limit social contact; if there is nothing for people to come into town centres for, it makes isolation measures so much easier. Can you imagine trying to enforce social distancing with all the clothes and fashion shops open? Shutting civic amenity sites seems to me an over-reaction; people don't usually go there for social contact, and advice to avoid DIY does seem a bit cruel with people confined to home.

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Kim Hedges on 03/04/2020(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#116 Posted : 03 April 2020 15:02:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

What we need to do is the avoidance of browsing, where people go into shop to look things, pick up um and then buy something they don’t really want. About half of the clothes bought in shops are only worn once or never worn at all.  People should know what they want, go in and buy it. Then get out.  This will mean the end of retail therapy which is a good thing and I will never again have to be asked “Does my bum look big in this”

As to DIY not being available; I can live with that!  

 

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Kim Hedges on 03/04/2020(UTC)
Kim Hedges  
#117 Posted : 03 April 2020 17:16:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

I received an email from the World Wide Web consortium, which is a group that originally designed the internet even before Sir Tim Berners Lee made his breakthough of getting a computer programme to use written addresses rather than the original set of numerical address numbers to describe an address of a user.  Then the internet of things was born.  So it's quite knowledgable. 

Link here to a letter asking everyone to be on the alert of fake news and to challenge, report and stop it where possible. 

https://mailchi.mp/webfoundation/how-you-can-help-fight-misinformation-life-without-the-net-in-the-time-of-coronavirus?e=12eab08f03

Kim Hedges  
#118 Posted : 03 April 2020 17:29:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

As i'm stuck at home, like so many, watching the afternoon news from about 2pm on the BBC news channel has become compulsory, as this is when you find out the number of people who have died in the previous 24 hours.  The rise in numbers of death continues, the plateau that has been previously described, seems not to have been reached.  

Tuesday 393, Wednesday 563, Thursday 569, Friday 684. 

I just hope people STAY AT HOME or the previous period of staying at home will have all been for nothing.

Roundtuit  
#119 Posted : 03 April 2020 21:56:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Latest episode of the Trump folly files - you will be Covid tested before meeting the supreme being AND if you are an international supplier such as 3M then our 1950 anti communist legislation means you MUST ship all production to the US before keeping to your international supply contract obligations despite any humanitarian crisis this may cause. To all world leaders give this guy what he wants - total global isolation.
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Kim Hedges on 04/04/2020(UTC), biker1 on 06/04/2020(UTC)
Kim Hedges  
#120 Posted : 04 April 2020 14:07:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

709

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