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inspector Gadget  
#1 Posted : 16 January 2020 16:00:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
inspector Gadget

I don't know why anyone would recommend anything other than NEBOSH Diploma.

It's the most well known, credible and sought after qualification. It's the real McCoy and everything else is just 2nd best. A pale imitation.

Why have cotton, when you can have silk? 

A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 16 January 2020 16:30:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Well there is NCRQ Diploma, which a different format but covers most of the same ground. It does not rely on exams but is based on course work, which suits some people.

NVQ is based not so much on learning new stuff but on demonstrating that you have achieved the expected level of competence through work. That suits some people and as it has the same rating in RQF but no formal teaching or exams.

Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 16 January 2020 17:26:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

When you look at recruitment adverts it's the General Certificate which gets most listings

Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 16 January 2020 17:26:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

When you look at recruitment adverts it's the General Certificate which gets most listings

peter gotch  
#5 Posted : 16 January 2020 18:53:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Inspector Gadget - do you have one iota of evidence to demonstrate that the NEBOSH Diploma (you don't say which Diploma) is better than any other qualification that is rated as equivalent on the European Qualifications Framework?

It is definitely true that some NEBOSH Diplomas are better than others. They've not been all set at the same level on the EQF.

I'm very lucky. I got sent to Aston Uni to do a Post Graduate Diploma - meant that I never had to learn NEBOSH speak, though occasionally I have had to help those who do speak NEBOSH learn how to translate it into Plain English.

thanks 6 users thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 17/01/2020(UTC), lorna on 22/01/2020(UTC), Gasman on 22/01/2020(UTC), Dazzling Puddock on 21/02/2020(UTC), Todai on 16/03/2020(UTC), TomPercival on 16/10/2020(UTC)
Dave5705  
#6 Posted : 17 January 2020 06:34:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Dave5705

Originally Posted by: peter gotch Go to Quoted Post

Inspector Gadget - do you have one iota of evidence to demonstrate that the NEBOSH Diploma (you don't say which Diploma) is better than any other qualification that is rated as equivalent on the European Qualifications Framework?

It is definitely true that some NEBOSH Diplomas are better than others. They've not been all set at the same level on the EQF.

I'm very lucky. I got sent to Aston Uni to do a Post Graduate Diploma - meant that I never had to learn NEBOSH speak, though occasionally I have had to help those who do speak NEBOSH learn how to translate it into Plain English.


Agreed Peter. I have courted opinion from a few senior (in experience, not years!) practitioners like yourself, not least a previous chair of professional standards at IOSH, and they have expressed an unfavourable view of Nebosh methodology, at least how it used to be. I believe now the courses are changing with more focus on tasks and application rather than legislation. I am doing a PGDip and hear the same opinions bounded around there too, mainly to make H&S more accessible. 
thanks 1 user thanked Dave5705 for this useful post.
Dazzling Puddock on 21/02/2020(UTC)
George_Young  
#7 Posted : 17 January 2020 09:24:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
George_Young

Each course has its own merits, rewards and weaknesses. I too would be interested in your evidence for this statement.

ttxela  
#8 Posted : 17 January 2020 09:29:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ttxela

Originally Posted by: inspector Gadget Go to Quoted Post

I don't know why anyone would recommend anything other than NEBOSH Diploma.

It's the most well known, credible and sought after qualification. It's the real McCoy and everything else is just 2nd best. A pale imitation.

Why have cotton, when you can have silk? 

Well I certainly admire your enthusiasm, I don't think I've ever heard such zealous commitment to a teaching format! 

thanks 3 users thanked ttxela for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 17/01/2020(UTC), jwk on 17/01/2020(UTC), Dazzling Puddock on 21/02/2020(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#9 Posted : 17 January 2020 10:01:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

One of the funny things about NEBOSH is that they spend so much time explaining the law and then they get it wrong eg criminal law =statute law and civil law = common law and other gross over simplifications

Their approach to statutory interpretation leaves a lot to be desired as well.

 

My favourite bit of NEBOSH speak is a past question which asks “Your company is going to buy an existing property in town. How do you go about it?”

The examiners comments was that this question was “very poorly answered”. This was probably because most people wrote something along the lines:” We will get chartered surveyor in to have a look at it”. Others talked about asbestos and asked about asbestos files etc. The state of the services in the building were also looked at but none of this was “NEBOSH right”. What we should have done as H&S professionals was to look at the fabric of the building and identify things like weeds growing in the gutters and evidence of subsidence, decide if the building was safe to use.

This was a few years ago but I can imagine better approaches than this to learning.

 

Clark34486  
#10 Posted : 17 January 2020 10:36:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clark34486

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

One of the funny things about NEBOSH is that they spend so much time explaining the law and then they get it wrong eg criminal law =statute law and civil law = common law and other gross over simplifications

Their approach to statutory interpretation leaves a lot to be desired as well.

 

My favourite bit of NEBOSH speak is a past question which asks “Your company is going to buy an existing property in town. How do you go about it?”

The examiners comments was that this question was “very poorly answered”. This was probably because most people wrote something along the lines:” We will get chartered surveyor in to have a look at it”. Others talked about asbestos and asked about asbestos files etc. The state of the services in the building were also looked at but none of this was “NEBOSH right”. What we should have done as H&S professionals was to look at the fabric of the building and identify things like weeds growing in the gutters and evidence of subsidence, decide if the building was safe to use.

This was a few years ago but I can imagine better approaches than this to learning.

 


NEBOSH is rather 'nuts', the point you make is clearly that of many of us. The questions they ask, and the way they ask them can have so many permutations, all of which are often apt for the question  they ask.

NEBOSH should roundly be be described as cantankerous

thanks 2 users thanked Clark34486 for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 20/01/2020(UTC), Dazzling Puddock on 21/02/2020(UTC)
lorna  
#11 Posted : 22 January 2020 13:28:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
lorna

This old chestnut - again. There are many routes & you pick the one that suits your needs, whether that's the sector you're working in, price, lifestyle or learning style. One size does not fit all.

I have what IOSH refer to as a cognate degree plus a handful of postgrad qualifications & about 20 years of CPD and I still get automatically rejected because I don't have a Level 3 NEBOSH Certificate. It's time that agencies & employers realised that there are other options.

thanks 1 user thanked lorna for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 22/01/2020(UTC)
WatsonD  
#12 Posted : 22 January 2020 15:23:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

Plenty of posters on here - who should know better, are once again happily feeding the trolls.

thanks 1 user thanked WatsonD for this useful post.
toe on 28/05/2020(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#13 Posted : 22 January 2020 16:01:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I don’t think they are a troll, just overenthusiastic!  

peter gotch  
#14 Posted : 26 January 2020 11:28:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Not sure, but Inspector Gadget hasn't told us whether they have done the NEBOSH Diploma (nor what type of NEBOSH Diploma) or any other type of H&S professional qualification.

So, we are in the dark as to whether IG is a troll.

credricochet  
#15 Posted : 10 March 2020 15:54:04(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
credricochet

Originally Posted by: peter gotch Go to Quoted Post

Inspector Gadget - do you have one iota of evidence to demonstrate that the NEBOSH Diploma (you don't say which Diploma) is better than any other qualification that is rated as equivalent on the European Qualifications Framework?

It is definitely true that some NEBOSH Diplomas are better than others. They've not been all set at the same level on the EQF. Download: Run 3 online.

I'm very lucky. I got sent to Aston Uni to do a Post Graduate Diploma - meant that I never had to learn NEBOSH speak, though occasionally I have had to help those who do speak NEBOSH learn how to translate it into Plain English.

It does not rely on exams but is based on course work, which suits some people.


Invictus  
#16 Posted : 11 March 2020 15:36:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

this arguement has gone on for year, I think they all have their merits, NVQ, diploma etc. we all learn in different ways and also not all companies will foot the bill for a NEBOSH diploma or give the time off that goes with it and some people have other priorities and can't give the time required.

I don't believe that the diploma makes a better practitioner.

chris.packham  
#17 Posted : 15 March 2020 08:28:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

I have to agree with Invictus.

Many years ago, when, as a young man, I was working in Austria, I had to take their driving test. (I already had had a U.K. driving licence for several years.) The lady who taught me so that I could pass their test (at the time very different from the U.K. test) said to me after the test: ‘Now you have passed the test we will look at how I can help you drive safely.’ On the basis that I would at some time drive a fast car she took me out on to a local race track and taught me to control a car at speed. On the basis that I would spend much of my time in the winter driving in snowy and icy conditions we also had a long spell on a skin pan.

Doesn’t the same apply to qualifications such as NEBOSH? Competence does not come from passing an examination. It comes from a combination of technical knowledge, experience and further study (and an enquiring mind).

As it happens, in my particular field there is no relevant qualification, so where does that leave me after 40 years of learning and experience? 

thanks 1 user thanked chris.packham for this useful post.
bxuxa on 15/03/2020(UTC)
bxuxa  
#18 Posted : 15 March 2020 14:53:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bxuxa

In some countries, eg. Spain and Portugal, the access to the practice is regulated by the local authority, meaning that the syllabus must follow a specific subject. In general, it takes at least 1500 hours of training to be accepted as a practitioner.

Well, 8 years ago NEBOSH introduced into Iberic market as something fantastic, never seen before. A couple of training's sessions after, the loss of interest was general, the subjects were far behind the training locally provided.

NEBOSH, NVQ or NCRQ is only good until you see something better!

Yes, there is a lobby in the middle, and it is a shame that HSE doesn't stay impartial.

WatsonD  
#19 Posted : 16 March 2020 15:09:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

On the flip side of the coin Spain (not sure about Portgual) has a real problem with consistency because these regulations are decided locally and there is no national standard in place to bring them all up to a similar level. So your local training standards could be excellent, or transversly they could be terrible.

Unlike nationally recognised qualifications (regardless which one) which are there to ensure a 'minimum level' for all. Like in all other industries the qualification is just the starting point.

thanks 1 user thanked WatsonD for this useful post.
bxuxa on 16/03/2020(UTC)
Fraser38932  
#20 Posted : 30 March 2020 10:39:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Fraser38932

Yes, same argument years ago when I was deciding om w what route to take.

I decided on going down the NEBOSH route as I was self funding I made the choice of what to do when still in employment.

NEBOSH worked for me & opened up several doors over the years when I faced a lot of competition for jobs that I applied for.

Both the certificate & diploma are not easy to pass ( and harder distance learning ) but when you get into the hang of it, I found the exams pretty straightforward, having passed everything first time from certificate to diploma.

Its more a case now how that knowledge is applied in the workplace doing the job on a day to day basis & keeping CPD up.

John

LeslieDove18  
#21 Posted : 27 May 2020 08:57:22(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
LeslieDove18

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

One of the funny things about NEBOSH is that they spend so much time explaining the law and then they get it wrong eg criminal law =statute law and civil law = common law and other gross over simplifications

Their approach to statutory interpretation leaves a lot to be desired as well. brawl stars download on google chrome now or play ml on pc with your friends.

 

My favourite bit of NEBOSH speak is a past question which asks “Your company is going to buy an existing property in town. ?” 

The examiners comments was that this question was “very poorly answered”. This was probably because most people wrote something along the lines:” We will get chartered surveyor in to have a look at it”. Others talked about asbestos and asked about asbestos files etc. The state of the services in the building were also looked at but none of this was “NEBOSH right”. What we should have done as H&S professionals was to look at the fabric of the building and identify things like weeds growing in the gutters and evidence of subsidence, decide if the building was safe to use.

This was a few years ago but I can imagine better approaches than this to learning.

I desired to take some time to express my appreciation towards this well explained comment and to you! I can certainly see your enthusiasm in this field.

A Kurdziel  
#22 Posted : 29 May 2020 11:33:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Leslie has taken one of my comments in vain!

He/she/it has added links which makes me angry

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

Ezekiel 25:17

Roundtuit  
#23 Posted : 29 May 2020 11:59:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Now I have “Misirlou” by Dick Dale & His Del-Tones playing in my head.

Roundtuit  
#24 Posted : 29 May 2020 11:59:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Now I have “Misirlou” by Dick Dale & His Del-Tones playing in my head.

beanter8  
#25 Posted : 28 September 2020 05:51:50(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
beanter8

Originally Posted by: Dave5705 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: peter gotch Go to Quoted Post

Inspector Gadget - do you have one iota of evidence to demonstrate that the NEBOSH Diploma (you don't say which Diploma) is better than any other qualification that is rated as equivalent on the European Qualifications Framework?  skribbl io

It is definitely true that some NEBOSH Diplomas are better than others. They've not been all set at the same level on the EQF.  tetris

I'm very lucky. I got sent to Aston Uni to do a Post Graduate Diploma - meant that I never had to learn NEBOSH speak, though occasionally I have had to help those who do speak NEBOSH learn how to translate it into Plain English.

Looking around no one can understand what I'm thinking,
And no one wants to share what I'm dreaming of. 

 


Roundtuit  
#26 Posted : 28 September 2020 09:22:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

REPORTED - you do have to look to spot the embeded hyperlinks

Roundtuit  
#27 Posted : 28 September 2020 09:22:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

REPORTED - you do have to look to spot the embeded hyperlinks

peter gotch  
#28 Posted : 28 September 2020 11:23:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Well spotted Roundtuit. In one case, the poster has only posted 4 times and on three of their "contributions" same embedded links.

P

Todai  
#29 Posted : 07 October 2020 10:43:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Todai

in my view, it doesnt matter what qualfiication you have. you get no exceptions for being crap at your job just because you have a Nebosh or NCRQ or any Safety qual. 

Nobody sat in the office calling you a useless [expletive deleted] but saying its ok cause you got distinction on your Nebosh. in my opinion you learn the job when you're doing the job not sat reading some books. 

Mark-W  
#30 Posted : 12 October 2020 08:35:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mark-W

Originally Posted by: Todai Go to Quoted Post

in my view, it doesnt matter what qualfiication you have. you get no exceptions for being crap at your job just because you have a Nebosh or NCRQ or any Safety qual. 

Nobody sat in the office calling you a useless [expletive deleted] but saying its ok cause you got distinction on your Nebosh. in my opinion you learn the job when you're doing the job not sat reading some books. 

Agree totally. When you learn to drive, you are actually learning to pass the test. Once you have passed the test and have your licence you can then go forward and learn to drive properly in the real world

peter gotch  
#31 Posted : 12 October 2020 14:26:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

I understand that it has changed but when I did my driving lessons (long time ago, but there weren't many horses and carts around!), the test didn't include checking that one was competent to park.

My driving instructor took a different view. Said that if I was going to drive in a city then knowing how to parallel park was critical. So included that from Lesson 1.

But quite a lot of drivers who live near me have yet to learn how to do this!

thanks 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
aud on 13/10/2020(UTC)
aud  
#32 Posted : 13 October 2020 18:32:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
aud

Agree totally. When you learn to drive, you are actually learning to pass the test. Once you have passed the test and have your licence you can then go forward and learn to drive properly in the real world. Mark-W

That might have been your experience, and I have heard it said dozens of times, but when I gave driving lessons (ex ADI) it was critically part of my offer that students were taught PROPERLY real world stuff - as we usually were driving in the real world anyway. Most good instructors are on the same page.

Once people leave the clutches of a driving school (haha!!) they rarely come back, so if they are not taught, and made to practice, the right way, they will develop skills the wrong way. Just like many other activities.

There were many elements not essential for the test which were covered - it wasn't even discussed if it was part of the test or not, it was just real life. After all, I would be driving in the same town as ex-students once they got their full licence.

thanks 1 user thanked aud for this useful post.
peter gotch on 14/10/2020(UTC)
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