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Viking-andy  
#1 Posted : 16 July 2024 18:56:15(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Viking-andy

Hi all,

Ive been asked by a client to visit one of there other offices which is 265 miles away from me in view of taking them on as a retainer service.

Im just seeking some friendly advice on how others may have tackled this as this is a first for me in terms of distance. 

It's nearly a 5 hour journey one way, so i was thinking of going the evening before (i would pay for the accomodation) so i could spend time with them the following day without the worry of traffic etc.  

Any thoughts would be appreciated on this.

Andy 

Kate  
#2 Posted : 17 July 2024 01:10:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

When you say client, do you mean they are not a client yet but may become one?  Or are they already a client?

Are you thinking about recovering your costs for what would be essentially a sales visit, or for visits when you will be doing work for them?

Viking-andy  
#3 Posted : 17 July 2024 05:01:41(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Viking-andy

Hi Katie, Thank you for your reply, they are already a client, so we would be spending a day with them on site so just looking to recover cost. Like I said we’ve never been in this situation and don’t really want to compromise our relationship with the client.
Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 17 July 2024 08:33:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

In the past I have had ISO certification providers present a list of "charges" applicable to certification visits.

Typically these would include a mileage rate (unsurprisngly matching HMRC Advisory Fuel Rate) a meal rate (again usurprsingly matching HMRC 480 tax guide values) and for protracted multi-day visits the option to either arrange Bed & Breakfast or be charged their listed standard accomodation rate.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/advisory-fuel-rates

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/expenses-and-benefits-for-directors-and-employees-a-tax-guide-480

265 miles and 5 hours I presume you are driving but if not then it is not unreasonable to recharge the public transport fares (bus, coach, train, tram, taxi).

With the typical working day being 8 hours you may also want to consider a charge for excess travelling time - you aren't earning while you are driving and if this is your first time on a significant journey your current hourly rate may not take in to consideration lost travelling hours. For example first 2 - 4 hours free each subsequent hour £x although do keep it realistic (in line with typical estimated mapping times not charging for exceptions).

The thing is to be up front there are costs associated with you making the trip and your client will know this.

If you dont recharge you will end up feeling resentfull over time. Similarly if you charge too low invoice scrutiny could become a future issue when you need to raise charges to match costs.

Remember no one should pay to be employed - if it is clearly documented and open to scrutiny there can be no dispute of resaonable reimbursement.

Beware though if you state mileage is at "HMRC rates" these change every three months.

Also, if you are unfortunate enough to drive an EV then HMRC AER fails to cover charging costs.

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Kate on 17/07/2024(UTC), Viking-andy on 17/07/2024(UTC), Kate on 17/07/2024(UTC), Viking-andy on 17/07/2024(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 17 July 2024 08:33:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

In the past I have had ISO certification providers present a list of "charges" applicable to certification visits.

Typically these would include a mileage rate (unsurprisngly matching HMRC Advisory Fuel Rate) a meal rate (again usurprsingly matching HMRC 480 tax guide values) and for protracted multi-day visits the option to either arrange Bed & Breakfast or be charged their listed standard accomodation rate.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/advisory-fuel-rates

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/expenses-and-benefits-for-directors-and-employees-a-tax-guide-480

265 miles and 5 hours I presume you are driving but if not then it is not unreasonable to recharge the public transport fares (bus, coach, train, tram, taxi).

With the typical working day being 8 hours you may also want to consider a charge for excess travelling time - you aren't earning while you are driving and if this is your first time on a significant journey your current hourly rate may not take in to consideration lost travelling hours. For example first 2 - 4 hours free each subsequent hour £x although do keep it realistic (in line with typical estimated mapping times not charging for exceptions).

The thing is to be up front there are costs associated with you making the trip and your client will know this.

If you dont recharge you will end up feeling resentfull over time. Similarly if you charge too low invoice scrutiny could become a future issue when you need to raise charges to match costs.

Remember no one should pay to be employed - if it is clearly documented and open to scrutiny there can be no dispute of resaonable reimbursement.

Beware though if you state mileage is at "HMRC rates" these change every three months.

Also, if you are unfortunate enough to drive an EV then HMRC AER fails to cover charging costs.

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Kate on 17/07/2024(UTC), Viking-andy on 17/07/2024(UTC), Kate on 17/07/2024(UTC), Viking-andy on 17/07/2024(UTC)
peter gotch  
#6 Posted : 17 July 2024 11:06:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Andy, this is going to sound grumpy but it's intended to be pragmatic.

This is the sort of issue that your business SHOULD have foreseen and closed out when you negotiated the contract, UNLESS the contract gives you enough wriggle room to say that a long journey was NOT foreseeable, e.g. if the contract was limited to desk top work.

So, now you are faced with a need to either take a hit or renegotiate terms to cater for travel time/costs, accommodation etc.

Which negotiation might even mean accepting that you take a hit for part or all of the costs for THIS trip, whilst agreeing the terms for future visits.

Not clear who the client is nor how many locations they might have.

But suppose that all their sites are in the North of England and you are based in Essex. They are unlikely to simply agree to pay all the travel time and associated costs if they could relatively easily get the services from a more local supplier.

Conversely, if they have a very wide geographic presence, then perhaps they expect that some of the visits will mean significant travel time, overnights and so on.

Or you might have some particular expoertise which is difficult to procure. In that case, distance becomes less of an issue.

These and other variables will influence how willing the Client is to accept all these additional costs.

thanks 2 users thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
Kate on 17/07/2024(UTC), Viking-andy on 17/07/2024(UTC)
Kate  
#7 Posted : 17 July 2024 17:18:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

No way would I visit an existing client at a distant site without recovering the costs of this from them.  I'm a contractor, not a charity.

I agree that this ought to be foreseen within the contract.  But if it hasn't been, it needs to be negotiated now.  If they said no, I'd be saying no too.

thanks 2 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
Viking-andy on 17/07/2024(UTC), Acorns on 17/07/2024(UTC)
Viking-andy  
#8 Posted : 17 July 2024 18:13:54(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Viking-andy

Thanks all for the really useful advice, its greatly appreciated. Regarding the contracted work, we work for them in ESSEX, and they have a more local company up North however they had become unreliable and as such approached us. 

We never anticipated working on their other site at any point, however i will take on board the advice given for future refrerences.

Acorns  
#9 Posted : 17 July 2024 18:45:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Acorns

Sounds like an expansion of an existing contract, can we assume you already deal with travel costs for the current scenario. Your right to go the night before, and anticipate a full day with client which means a second hotel stay I might take the hit for this trip, preempting the client to that effect and confirm that as it’s an addition, all site visits will reviewed for travel time and expenses. It may be a bit niece to miss this out originally but it’s an opportunity to revisit it. Either way, it needs to be discussed internally and then with the client. I’d see it as a poor decision if you don’t include accommodation etc as part of the site costs. You need to know the list of you failed to charge for x visits or over a year.
thanks 1 user thanked Acorns for this useful post.
Viking-andy on 18/07/2024(UTC)
andybz  
#10 Posted : 18 July 2024 08:56:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
andybz

From a H&S perspective you should have two nights in a hotel due to the distance being travelled.

From a business perspective you need to decide if: * It is an opportunity to make a good return because your client is making a distress purchase * You will gain more in the long term by doing it at a low cost as a one off to help them out. * Make a reasonable charge in line with your existing contract.

thanks 1 user thanked andybz for this useful post.
Viking-andy on 18/07/2024(UTC)
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