Rank: Forum user 
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We have an employee who says he does not need a chair that has a 5 wheel base and adjustable back and height as he does not have a problem with his back. What can I do about it?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Not having a back problem is of course not the criterion. The criterion is whether they are a DSE user (defined as someone making intensive use of DSE for prolonged periods, usually interpreted as working solidly at the computer for at least an hour each day).
The reason they need a proper chair is to prevent them developing back, shoulder, neck, wrist and eye problems.
I would want to find out why they object to using a proper chair in order to have some chance of convincing them.
On the other hand if they are not really a DSE user as defined by HSE and depending on the circumstances, I might think it's not worth the effort.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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The HSE checklist only asks if chairs have certain features that are working not that they MUST be present. It then goes on to state "the chair may need repairing or replacing if the user is uncomfortable". The user has stated they are comfortable so why are you seeking unecessary conflict? Not sure you will find "absolute wording" in published regulation to support your position.
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Rank: Super forum user
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The HSE checklist only asks if chairs have certain features that are working not that they MUST be present. It then goes on to state "the chair may need repairing or replacing if the user is uncomfortable". The user has stated they are comfortable so why are you seeking unecessary conflict? Not sure you will find "absolute wording" in published regulation to support your position.
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Rank: Super forum user
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...sounds like you have a 'elf and safety' hater...perhaps you approach the task on comfort and longevity rather than force...the difference between relaxing in front of the TV and working in front of it all day perhaps...you are required to carry out a RA (which you may have to do if they are not willing - by observation) and just help to show that all that it is doing is trying to prevent future injury...try and bring them on the journey...
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: Super forum user
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Work chair
The work chair shall be stable and allow the operator or user easy freedom of movement and a comfortable position.
The seat shall be adjustable in height.
The seat back shall be adjustable in both height and tilt.
So no "insistence" on a five castor arrangement and an opening line about user comfort. These regulations as expressed in so many other threads are long overdue review.
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 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Work chair
The work chair shall be stable and allow the operator or user easy freedom of movement and a comfortable position.
The seat shall be adjustable in height.
The seat back shall be adjustable in both height and tilt.
So no "insistence" on a five castor arrangement and an opening line about user comfort. These regulations as expressed in so many other threads are long overdue review.
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2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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A typical meeting room chair is not on wheels and does not allow for freedom of movement.
The standard five castor pattern of DSE chairs gives the freedom of movement together with the required stability that you would not get from some other possible arrangements of wheels.
That combination of freedom of movement with stability is why it has become standard.
You might come up with an innovative design that achieved this in a different way, but a typical meeting room chair does not.
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Hi Woolhouse-Smith I'm in the camp that thinks that talking to the person involved is wise. What is their issue with a chair designed for the purpose rather than one which many people will find uncomfortable if sitting for extended periods? They may not present with a back problem now, but what will THEY think if and when they DO get back problems?
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1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
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The user says he knows his own body and feels that by moving on the meeting room chair he gets more movement to prevent back issues
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A good few years ago, when my brother worked in a Government Office he duly filled in a DSE self-assessment questionnaire (he was a DSE user as he operated the office electronic 'switchborad' amongst other computer-based tasks. On answering 'NO' to 'do your feet touch the ground? isthe height of your chair adjustable? Is the back adjustable? does it have five castors etc?' a DSE assessor was sent up from central services too acrry out an assessment. On arriving at the office and meeting my brother, sat at his modified workstation in his wheelchair said assesor had a cup of coffee and went back to his office slighty irritated at wasting his time.
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3 users thanked pseudonym for this useful post.
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Rank: Forum user
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Originally Posted by: pseudonym  A good few years ago, when my brother worked in a Government Office he duly filled in a DSE self-assessment questionnaire (he was a DSE user as he operated the office electronic 'switchborad' amongst other computer-based tasks. On answering 'NO' to 'do your feet touch the ground? isthe height of your chair adjustable? Is the back adjustable? does it have five castors etc?' a DSE assessor was sent up from central services too acrry out an assessment. On arriving at the office and meeting my brother, sat at his modified workstation in his wheelchair said assesor had a cup of coffee and went back to his office slighty irritated at wasting his time.
Thank you but a wheelchair user is different to a walking person
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Originally Posted by: Woolhouse-Smith29124 but a wheelchair user is different to a walking person
As human beings we are ALL different from one another.
As example the US military spent millions trying to design a standard cockpit seat intended to fit anyone which effectively fitted no one.
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6 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Originally Posted by: Woolhouse-Smith29124 but a wheelchair user is different to a walking person
As human beings we are ALL different from one another.
As example the US military spent millions trying to design a standard cockpit seat intended to fit anyone which effectively fitted no one.
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6 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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You need to look at para. 1 of the Schedule. This defines: “Extent to which employers must ensure that workstations meet the requirements laid down in this schedules”. This would imply that there is no absolute duty to apply ALL of the requirements in the schedule. The para goes on to state: (a) those requirements relate to a component which is present in the workstation concerned; (b) those requirements have effect with a view to securing the health, safety and welfare of persons at work; and (c) the inherent characteristics of a given task make compliance with those requirements appropriate as respects the workstation concerned. So you could argue that having done a workstation risk assessment, if the person is happy with the set up they have and it is not creating any issues then they can use a meeting room type chair. Personally I rather they didn’t but you can’t force them to adopt a better chair. Simply saying you must use this chair because it’s the rules, is wrong and not complaint with the law.
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2 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
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Hi Woolhouse-Smith
I am slightly surprised by your reaction to one of pseudonym's comments. The narrative they presented shows precisely why one size fits all procedures rarely work as they don't tend to cater for the diversity of the workforce.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I think the answer is no but how about doing the RA and findings and put it into his personal file for future reference and ensure he knows its there.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I think the implications to the answers to this question are actually very interesting.
Firstly, as others have pointed out, the DSE regs are quite clear on the topic - it's one of the relatively few pieces of H&S law we have that has some clearly defined requirements: The Health and Safety (Display Screen Equipment) Regulations 1992 regulation 3 straightforwardly says "Every employer shall ensure that any workstation ... meets the requirements laid down in the Schedule", and the schedule says the chair "seat shall be adjustable in height" and "back shall be adjustable in both height and tilt". (The only possible weaselling is the consequences of schedule 1 (b), but I don't think that applies to the case under discussion.)
However, the HSE has said in various places that you don't need to comply with this: for example (which is linked from https://www.hse.gov.uk/msd/dse/home-working.htm) says the workstation should be set up to achieve good posture and then "you don't necessarily need office furniture at home to achieve good posture" and goes on to illustrate with a person sitting on a four-legged, apparently wooden, conventional sort of home chair, without adjustable seat height, and without adjustable back height or tilt.
So we have the law clearly saying one thing, and the regulator (and only organisation that is likely to bring prosecution under the law) advising something different. As I said - interesting.
We have a home workstation self assessment that says the chair should comply with the schedule, but if a user says theirs doesn't we refer them to good posture guidance (keeping a record on file of having done so), ask them to conform that they have considered the guidance and that the furniture they are using enables them to maintain a good posture (keeping a record of the confirmation), then advise them they can continue to work at home at their choice, but that if they find they cannot maintain good posture (or have any discomfort etc) they should return to the office full time, where fully compliant furniture is provided.
It's the only area I know of in our operations where we knowingly allow staff to contravene the law. Edited by user 28 January 2025 11:28:57(UTC)
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3 users thanked achrn for this useful post.
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Dunno what's going on there - when I wrote it, it had paragraphs. When I edit it, it has paragraphs. When I view it, it's one long monolithic stream of consciousness... Also, it's taken me six (and counting) attempts to post this - "You can't post in teh next xx seconds" - I waited twice as long as it said and again "you can't post in eth next..." Maybe I'll get it posted by the end of the day.
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Hi achrn I sympathise - on both counts!! Getting formatting can be problematic on the Forums. The time out feature would probably not be needed if IOSH could control the number of bots who manage to target the site.
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I think you have also to remember a bit of the regulations history...it came about primarily from a drive to modernise the printing industry and a fight between the unions and the employers over the introduction of technology...
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DSE workstation set up in my 'experience' is a bit like that of flexible extraction arms (Nederman arms - others are available) in that they are only 'correct' for the five minutes it takes for the assessor etc to leave the room. Once the H&S bod etc is nowhere to be seen, people just make themselves comfortable or move the nuisance arm out of the way so they can see what they are doing. (And yes I realise that if this is the case then perhaps the extraction arm isn't the 'right' solution - but that's another story altogether)
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The mistake is that too many DSE assessors make is that they assume that there is “one optimal” position and once the person is in that position they can stay like that all day. The really important part of DSE as far as I am concerned is reg 4, which is about breaks. Breaks give people a chance to move about but also a chance to readjust their chair. Some people like to move their back rest over the day. I tell them that’s good but when it goes back to a position more suitable for sleeping as opposed to working they should be going home!
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2 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
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Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel too many DSE assessors make is that they assume that there is “one optimal” position and once the person is in that position they can stay like that all day.
Similar to the myth based on page numbered 7 in INDG143 people can safely carry 25Kg.
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Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel too many DSE assessors make is that they assume that there is “one optimal” position and once the person is in that position they can stay like that all day.
Similar to the myth based on page numbered 7 in INDG143 people can safely carry 25Kg.
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Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Similar to the myth based on page numbered 7 in INDG143 people can safely carry 25Kg.
Also based on the MAC Tool (INDG383) page 3 & 8
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Rank: Super forum user 
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1. Its your job to make sure the chairs which DSE users sit at are DSE compliant.
2. Its his job to sit where he is told by those whose job it is to undertake item 1. and get on with his work. Simple.
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i don't think life's that simple... if it was i'd out of a job and so would most of us!
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Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel i don't think life's that simple... if it was i'd out of a job and so would most of us!
No, you'd have more time to focus on the imprtant issues rather then pandering to someone who is just being difficult. He is clearly just being difficult.
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not sure the person is actually doing anything wrong here...there are anumber of reasons that people 'go against the rules' below is just and example of some: Think my point here was made earlier that you need to understand the person rather than forcing the rule... 1. Psychological Reactance (The Rebellion Effect)- When people feel their freedom is being restricted, they might instinctively push back. This is common in teenagers but also in adults who dislike authority.
- Example: A strict dress code at school might make students deliberately wear banned clothing to assert independence.
2. The Just-World Fallacy- Some people believe rules should always be fair. When they perceive a rule as unfair or unjust, they feel justified in breaking it.
- Example: Employees might steal from a company they think underpays them because they feel they "deserve" more.
3. Cognitive Dissonance- If someone’s values conflict with a rule, they may break it to resolve the internal discomfort.
- Example: A person who believes helping others is more important than laws may choose to give food to the homeless in areas where it's illegal.
4. The Bystander Effect & Social Influence- People are more likely to break rules if they see others doing it without consequences.
- Example: If everyone in a crowd jaywalks, more people feel comfortable doing the same.
5. Risk vs. Reward Thinking- People weigh the consequences of breaking a rule against the benefits. If the reward seems higher than the risk, they may go for it.
- Example: A student might cheat on a test if they think the chance of getting caught is low but the reward (a good grade) is high.
6. Impulse Control & Personality Factors- Some people have lower impulse control due to personality traits or even neurological factors, making them more likely to act on instinct rather than follow rules.
- Example: A person with a high need for excitement might speed while driving, even if they know it's dangerous.
7. Moral Licensing- If someone sees themselves as a "good person," they might feel justified in bending or breaking rules in some areas.
- Example: Someone who regularly donates to charity might feel okay about illegally downloading music.
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