Rank: Forum user
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Just wanted to pick someone's brains
For the evaluation of legal compliance clause of the standard we have historically performed legal audits on a rolling three year cycle, ie take a piece of legislation, write up a simple aid memoir for each regulation contained within the legislation & audited each area of the business affected using the ACOP / Guidance as a supplementary guide.
This has always worked very well for us & our 3rd party auditor is very happy with the system although he has stated that he has never seen this method of evaluation before, the audits can be quite labour intensive for larger pieces of legislation such as PUWER or COSHH I was wandering how anyone else complies with this element of the standard?
Any tips greatly appreciated
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Rank: Forum user
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You shouldn't have to entirely review on a three year cycle with continual improvement, i.e. you already have a H&S compliance register detailing applicable regulations, a H&S policy document outlining the measures you will take to comply with each set of regulations and supporting arrangements to comply, i.e. documents, records, internal audits, non-conformance, corrective actions and preventive actions.
From all of that, it is a case of continual improvement based on external audit findings, internal audit results, safety inspections, incidents, time lapse, etc.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Cannot understand why your audiotor is satisfied. This clause is about evidencing ongoing compliance and not an annual or whatever review of applicable legislation and notes on how to comply - How do you ensure that your employees DO what is required and how is that compliance evidenced on an ongoing basis? This is not about continuing improvement it is a basic requirement that must be complied with at all times.
Bob
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Rank: Forum user
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boblewis wrote:Cannot understand why your audiotor is satisfied. This clause is about evidencing ongoing compliance and not an annual or whatever review of applicable legislation and notes on how to comply - How do you ensure that your employees DO what is required and how is that compliance evidenced on an ongoing basis? This is not about continuing improvement it is a basic requirement that must be complied with at all times.
Bob
I do not have BS OHSAS 18001 in front of me at the moment so cannot check. I was under the impression that the legal compliance clause was all about checking that policies and procedures comply. I thought other clauses dealt with implementation of the policies and procedures in practice. I could be wrong with this - if so I need to have a rethink. Our auditor seemed happy with our approach. I think t-bone's approach of doing a three yearly evalulation is a good idea - even if it may not be the entire package for compliance to this clause.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Buzz
The clause is entitled Evaluation of Legal and other Compliance. Hence it is not about your procedures and compliance with them - that is undertaken by your audit.
An environmental example is perhaps useful and more easily understood as 14001 has the same clause.
The organisation has a discharge consent for solvents to drain - The clause requires you to demonstrate how you ensure that you meet the discharge consent requirements al all times during operation
Simples!!!:-)
No it is not
Bob
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Rank: Super forum user
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4.3.2 Legal and other requirements
"The organization shall establish, implement and maintain a
procedure(s) for identifying and accessing the legal and other
OH&S requirements that are applicable to it.
The organization shall ensure that these applicable legal
requirements and other requirements to which the organization
subscribes are taken into account in establishing, implementing
and maintaining its OH&S management system.
The organization shall keep this information up-to-date.
The organization shall communicate relevant information on legal
and other requirements to persons working under the control of
the organization, and other relevant interested parties"
Ways this can be done...
Compliance / process audits
Observation tours and reports
Compiling a HS register of leg inc evaluation
Using KPIs
etc etc etc
If your accreditation body is happy keep the status quo!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Garfield
This is where people get confused 4.5.2 is Evaluation of Compliance. This is separate to 4.3.2 Identification of Legal and Other Requirements - it is however directly linked to the identification.
Identify what you need to control and then (4.5.2) how do you ensure you comply with the identified legal and other requirements
Bob
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Rank: Super forum user
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quote=boblewis]Garfield
This is where people get confused 4.5.2 is Evaluation of Compliance. This is separate to 4.3.2 Identification of Legal and Other Requirements - it is however directly linked to the identification.
Identify what you need to control and then (4.5.2) how do you ensure you comply with the identified legal and other requirements
Bob[ Yes you are correct there does seem to be some confusion and indeed fear of these clauses in 18001. I personally feel each can be complied with without stress. First of all your SMS should have already identified the necessary arrangements required to comply with all the law and standards that are relevant to the organisation. Secondly the evaluation - As previously stated KPI analysis, observational tours / inspections and of course audits, which can include specific reference to legislation etc and the 18001 standard itself, which is sometimes forgotten. Although there is no requirement to document a procedure or use a register, I feel the latter can be a useful way to demonstrate compliance. i.e. Identify the leg or standard etc. Look at the way it is relevant and summarise the way the you comply (an evaluation). Add in your reports from tours, audits, analysis and external assessment reports etc and hey presto. There are many free ways to attain updates on leg etc such as HSE, MCA, Unions and industry specific associations. It all depends on the type and scope of ones organisation in regard to time spent doing all of this, but I don't find compliance a big issue. Remember your accreditation body is there to help to a point and should not be feared. After all they are a business and don't want to lose custom]
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Rank: Forum user
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The evaluation should be completed on a risk based approach, so say regulations like PUWER and Management Regs should be evaluated far more frequently than say (trying not to offend any one..) the Factories Act which is all but defunct.
The three year cycle you talk about would be the period of your certificate, every thing needs to be done at least once in the three year period but if you only did COSHH or PUWER once in three years that would not be sufficient. Some regulations should have a nod at more or less every audit, such as the Management Regs with regards RA's.
As suggested, putting a check list together using the ACOP's is a successful method of carrying this out, but as also stated several pieces of legislation will be looked at during tours, inspections etc. so take credit for them.
Hope this helps.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Safety Witch
The problem with the approach you suggest is that the organisation must at all times comply with legislation and other requirements it imposes on itself. Clause 4.5.2 is about ONGOING compliance and so cannot be satisfied simply by periodic measurements unless you can identify such things as system stability and other matters. As an auditor myself I do find that most systems rely on a periodic look and when interrogated they show deficiencies in evidence of compliance. Look at this another way for example: How can yoy ensure that your staff constantly and consistently achieve legal and other requirement compliance whenever and wherever they encounter a specific item.
Bob
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