There you go Walker no body on this site is more observant then Graham!

Graham keep up your in depth knowledgeable threads!

I think the general opinion is alcohol and work do not mix whatever your position in the company is. There are some old examples of drinking being actively encouraged during working hours but most have now thankfully stopped. There is some entertaining at hotels etc by sales people still going on but what harm does that do provided they are controlling the intake and not driving etc. It would be a very bad world if a total ban on such things became the norm simply because of being overzelous and being very closed minded.

So many individual opinions don't make a common opinion is that what you are saying??? My thoughts are that the general view is alcohol and work don't make cosy bedfellows simply because it makes ones action potentially dangerous and should not be taken without some very careful thought. Well off for a pint now.

No Bob, 'many' individual opinions do not make a 'general' opinion. Which is what you said it was. Of course the word 'common' has a different meaning and so you could rightful say that a 'common opinion was that alcohol and work does not mix whatever your position in the company'. But you could not say it was a 'general' opinion.

I think this thread is losing it's way a bit as the focus has drifted onto whether it's an accepted practice to allow alcohol at work rather than whether it presents a H&S risk.

Regardless of the opinion though it would be a brave safety professional who would make a statement that alcohol does not increase the risk of accidents/incidents in the workplace, especially given the vast amount of evidence in relation to the effects it can have on judgement, concentration and the relaxing of inhibitions.

How has it lost it's way when the title of the thread is 'is it acceptable to drink alcohol during working hours'?

I will be that individual that says that IMO alcohol does NOT NECESSARILY increase the risks of accidents in the workplace.

SMALL quantities of alcohol, particuarly with food, in a low risk environment do not necessarily increase the risk of an accident. However, larger quantities of alcohol do. Thats is why we do not have a zero policy in the UK for alcohol and driving.

Where this thread has lost its way is people trying imply that having alcohol means getting drunk. It doesn't.

I got bored reading all of that - so missed some out :)

Got me thinking of the good old days - I used to manufacture breath alcohol sensors. There is only one way to ensure calibration of a new product works on real lungs.....

One occasion required a breath alcohol reading at twice the drink drive limit (70mg/100ml)... that was good day and a good start to a Friday night!

Also @Walker and NEE ONIONS

When taken to a fish and shop by a friend in an old mining town near Chester-Leigh-Street I was advised not to talk why he ordered the fish supper :)

Clairel isn't alone in her view that alcohol does not necessarily increase the risk of workplace accidents. At the start of my response at #9 I wrote 'yes' in answer to the thread title question but added that it depends "on the circumstances, time, place and alcohol dosage, etc."

Someone drinking a small (alias 'moderate') amount of alcohol, preferably with food (which presumably acts as an absorbent and slows down the body's uptake of alcohol) is surely unlikely to be significantly affected afterwards if they will be doing work which does NOT depend on a reasonable standard of physical and/or mental alertness. Unfortunately, there is a snag with this because people differ in their perceptions of what is a "moderate" amount for themselves in relation to their body size, gender, food intake, etc., or what constitutes 'low risk' work. This might explain why some responders to this thread oppose the drinking of any alcohol during work.

No 'shouldn't' about it. The person who posted this question has the right to ask what they want.

Feel free to move the thread in a different direction but don't say that the original question was asked wrongly!

Looks like I was right about the emotional response bit.

For all of the conjecture that it's 'ok' it's been disappointing the lack of proposed process to manage the risk associated with it. The problem isn't whether it's acceptable because, as I've already said, that can be taken as a moral question. As we're all posting on a h&s forum I think it's a fair assumption that the op wanted some idea as to whether this was an h&s problem? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that what we're hear for?

So, to address this personal feelings need to be out aside and the problem approached from a professional standpoint. What are the hazards? what's the likelihood? What's the risk? And then how can I apply a policy across an entire workforce?

Not to my knowledge, it certainly used to be the case though but I'm pretty sure it has been relegated to the archives now though.

Carol as it is nearly Friday and I am out of the office tomorrow my reply would have been: -


As long as you don't spill any!

Would anyone here feel ok about someone working close to their children after they (the person) has been drinking? Perhaps a teacher? The school bus driver? Note please: Had a drink and not drunk.

For my money, if anyone here in a pro capacity thinks that drink and work mix... change you job and please and give people a fighting chance. Or has this post become offensive?

Rob

Yes it does seem as Clairel has got a thorn under her saddle on this topic, but she does make some good points so lets not get to toff nosed about it please.

Blimey. Well if the Mods will allow it I'll come back with a response on that. So pardon me if I do a Graham and waffle on a bit.

Am I on my high horse? Yes I probably am actually.

In the first instance I resent someone coming onto a thread and criticising the thread becuase the question wasn't phrased in a way that they wanted it phrased and wasn't answered in a way that they wanted it answered. I think it's all in our interests to be able ask questions in a way we want to ask them and it's in all our interests to be able to answer that question in a way that we feel appropriate. If people think that I'm getting on my high horse about that then so be it.

On the subject of alcohol at work I too am on my high horse as I feel that many people have shown a level of extremisim on the subject that is symptomatic of one of the biggest problems in our induystry at the moment - black and white extremist views that lead to things being banned when instead they should be managed. Yes alcohol at work in many situations is wrong and that might include operating machinery and teaching school kids etc. But to say alcohol at work is always wrong is an extreme view. I work from home. I might (and have) gone for a pub lunch with my husband and have a glass of wine with my pie and chips and then go back home (to my office) and trawl my way through some admin work for the afternoon. I am at work. But what danger have I posed to myself or others. Should that be banned as you all seem to suggest? The same can be said for those that go down the pub on a Friday lunchtime with their work colleagues and have a pint and pie and then go back to the office to do admin. That's my opinion and I resent being told that I have no right to be in this profession because I hold that opinion.

Right. Rant over. I'll get back on my high horse (proudly actually) and go now. Shame you lot think passion on a subject is something to be ridiculed!

To further enforce Claire's point...

I find this all the time when, People have absolute views and don't consider a range of situations. People also are quick to sterotype and judge on absolutes.

So I think we can all agree working with high hazard machinery after a few pints is not a good idea... what if I am tired? Tiredness can have similar effects on reactions times... I've just banned night shifts!

I can also see the advantage of a policy that covers all workers by the way and this is something I too have implemented in the past, just always think there are always exceptions the rule.

p.s. two pints on strong larger could in theory push you over the drink drive limit - I doubt that's the advice to fireman. I thought it related to on-call fireman on a Friday night.
The difficulty with a drink drive limit is that it effectively sets a WEL in for alcohol and makes no account for other factors.

Why am I still typing - it's Friday and I have work to finish so I can get to the pub :)

And whilst we are quoting Terry....

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life

So @Bob

How should my old company conduct breath alcohol studies after we implement a total ban???
How might by a pub owner sample a new product after a total ban?

I see your point - but I think most people agree this is a risk based decision....

Also on a serious note - if we aim for zero tolerance - that must = breath alcohol of zero? (even f we are a low risk industry). So if a persons arrives for work with a blood alcohol reading below the drink driving limit but above zero - I assume they must be sent home as this is a breach, this effectively bans drinking the night before!

If we now decide that the drink drive limit is acceptable to get around the above - then how can we stop people having a drink!

In your industry (and other high hazard industry) it works - in most it's a minefield


Well it is Friday!

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David your view about having to wear hard hats etc in the office does not stand up I'm afraid. In the rail industry the blanket policy has been widely accepted as fair to all parties concerned and was applied in my company when staff rarely went into a safety critical environment although much of thier work involved safety at the highest level. Explained fairly and clearly to all parties so the fairness can be seen helps to reinforce the policy and the zero tolerance necessary in order for the policy to be applied effectively and above all fairly to everyone.