Personally, I think the current situation is that it's all a mess. As far as I can work out, once upon a time we had hoops on ladders and that was accepted practice. Some bright spark wrote a research paper saying hoops weren't a universal panacea that completely eliminated all hazards from falling off ladders. Wowee. Anyone that's climbed pretty much any hooped ladder could have come up with that conclusion - a cage with gaps you fit through isn't a guarantee that you won't fall through the gaps, and falling down a ladder inside the hoops is going to hurt even if you don't fall out through the cage. Then there were ladder fall-arrests, and some people put fall-arrest systems on hooped ladders. Then someone said (presumably with much sucking of teeth) 'aha, that might not be a good idea - if you put a fall arrest on a hooped ladder then it might not work as expected'. (But they didn't say anything useful like whether it was more likely than not to work, or whether it would actually make things worse). Then HSE said that you should think very carefully about the implications of anything, but shouldn't necessarily adopt any particular course of action. Hoops aren't fully effective, but a fall arrest inside hoops might not work as it should, but you shouldn't have a blanket hoop removal policy, but you shouldn't not use fall arrests inside hoops. As far as I can see, they've said just enough to be certain that you've done something wrong or contrary to guidance whatever you do.

There's a lengthy research report on the topic somewhere on the HSE website, that achrn has succintly summarised.

Hi Kate: Already read through that report. That is what initiated my interest. Chas: Any ideas how to get a copy or industry publication referring to this document? As this sounds ideal. Thanks

The following link may be of interest, it gives some dimensions. http://www.accessladdersuk.com/bs4211/ I believe the BS was last updated in 2008 and so any vertical ladder fitted after that date should be designed to comply. You will have to purchase the BS for all the fine detail or find someone who has access to the various technical databases that are available. A search on the web will also give some useful pointers.

jarsmith83 - BS are copyrighted documents - you can probably access a copy at the local library or indeed purchase your own.

BS 4211 states safety cages above 3000mm. The HSEs report does not state that cages are bad used on there own they? BS 4211 also states the need for gates above 1999mm.

A very similar query was discussed in March last year (with very similar views expressed...): http://forum.iosh.co.uk/...spx?g=posts&t=104578 Steve

Fantastic! How the hell did I miss that? I read through the regs a couple of time looking for that and could not source. Highlights why this forum can be so useful. Thank you to all the contributors of this thread as the regs combined with the BS standards have now helped big time.

Can I just ask a quick question (having skimmed the thread and not having access to the relevant BS). Do the BS say anything about the diameter of the hoops? I'm quite a small person and I do climb these things occasionally to get on top of storage tanks. I've always considered the hoops to be something to lean against if you get tired or you want to flick a piece of rusty paint out of your eye! I've tried leaning back against a hoop and I will not try it again!! :o/ John

Yes, in my archive I have an old pdf of L24 dated 2010. The quote above is from para 124 of the ACOP. For Reg 13, Fixed Ladders are dealt with in paras 199-126. The 2013 edition has no guidance on fixed ladders, other than defining them as a 'traffic route' and this para: and the references include, BS 4211:2005+A1:2008 Specification for permanently fixed ladders British Standards Institution