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Injury through negligence by two seperate parties.
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A school causes injury to a pupil through negligence and the resulting injury is made worse through negligence by NHS nurses.
Can both parties be sued for damages in the same claim, or,
Does it have to be one or the other, or
Can the parties be sued separately?
One for the legal eagles.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Probably be two separate claims, I would have thought.
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FireSafety101 wrote:A school causes injury to a pupil through negligence and the resulting injury is made worse through negligence by NHS nurses.
Can both parties be sued for damages in the same claim, or,
Does it have to be one or the other, or
Can the parties be sued separately?
One for the legal eagles.
Don't sue either, of course depending on how significant the injury is.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I would ensure there is a case to be had on both parts before putting in claims against either of them.
If there is then I would be under the assumption you would go for both separately, I don't think they would conspire together.
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Rank: Super forum user
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A lot will depend on the circumstances and the presence of an intervening event.
For example, the schools negligence causes 2 deep cuts. The treating emergency staff and doctors stem blood flow from one but struggle to tie off the second vessel. As a result, amputation is needed.
Its really all down to the school in that scenario.
However, lets say the cuts are dealt with safely in the casualty dept but then on the ward the patient develops an MRSA infection. School liable for the cuts, NHS for the effects of the MRSA.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Invictus wrote:FireSafety101 wrote:A school causes injury to a pupil through negligence and the resulting injury is made worse through negligence by NHS nurses.
Can both parties be sued for damages in the same claim, or,
Does it have to be one or the other, or
Can the parties be sued separately?
One for the legal eagles.
Don't sue either, of course depending on how significant the injury is.
The injury was/is significant.
A child with disabilities who had a Care Plan at school which the school ignored.
The injury led to Osteomilitis, hospitalisation, surgery where the wound was cleaned out, almost down to the bone, a long period of time off school with twicw daily visits from hospital nurses to give anti biotic through a long line etc. she is still under the hospital now, some 21 months after the event.
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The posters on here know a lot about H&S but less about the common law of negligence.
Speak to an expert in this aspect of the law.
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David Bannister wrote:The posters on here know a lot about H&S but less about the common law of negligence.
Speak to an expert in this aspect of the law.
Agreed, we could argue the toss all day but in the end the legal fraternity and possibly the insurance companies will decide if there is a legitimate claim by one or both parties and how they will proceed.
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Rank: Super forum user
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The girl's solicitor employed an expert witness, very well qualified. She has determined there is a case of negligence for both the school and the NHS trust.
My question is simple.
Can they both be sued, together in one case, or does it have to be two separate claims, or can there only be one claim against one of them?
I admit the question/s is/are simple but the answer/s may not be.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hi Fire safety
You might like to check any good tort text book.
Have a look at Robinson v Post Office [1974]
ROBINSON V POST OFFICE [1974] 1 WLR 1176
FACTS:
The plaintiff slipped at work, due to the defendant's negligence, and suffered a minor injury to his leg. The plaintiff went to hospital and was given an anti-tetanus injection and then he suffered a severe allergic reaction to the injection.
ISSUE:
Was the second injury too remote?
HELD:
The defendant was liable for both injuries. It was reasonably foreseeable that the plaintiff would require medical treatment as a result of the original injury and therefore, the defendant was liable for the consequences of the treatment, despite the reaction being unforeseeably severe.
BUT there is also a concept called Novus actus interveniens ie a tortious action which intervenes and breaks or may break the chain of causation thus between the two torts [negligence in this case]:
From Hell v Rankin [2000]
"if no additional damage is caused by the second tort, only the first defendant will be liable to compensate for all the loss and damage flowing from the first tort"; but
"if additional damage is caused by the second tort, the liability to pay for the cumulative loss and damage is shared between the parties on a pro rata basis. The first defendant remains liable to pay for the loss and damage directly flowing from the breach of the duty, ignoring the second tort. The second defendant pays only for the additional loss and damage flowing from the second tort. The claimant therefore receives full compensation but divided between the defendants in the proportions that the court assesses."
OK?
Regards
Mike
PS This is a quick flick-more details if you want or just go on Google/BAIILI
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Rank: Forum user
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FireSafety101 wrote:The girl's solicitor employed an expert witness, very well qualified. She has determined there is a case of negligence for both the school and the NHS trust.
My question is simple.
Can they both be sued, together in one case, or does it have to be two separate claims, or can there only be one claim against one of them?
I admit the question/s is/are simple but the answer/s may not be.
Maybe if the girl's solicitor and the expert witness are so very well qualified, so much so that she has predicted a legal outcome, you might want to ask one of them.
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Mike
Thank you, that is excellent information. Just why I asked on here because there is usually someone who has an answer without looking through the question.
For information the solicitor has asked who would we like to sue, one or the other and that is why I asked in the first place.
You may have guessed by now it is my daughter who has suffered, again.
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With respect and with sympathy for your situation, why ask for opinion on here when surely the opinion that counts the most is from your own solicitor.
Colin T
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ColinT wrote:With respect and with sympathy for your situation, why ask for opinion on here when surely the opinion that counts the most is from your own solicitor.
Colin T
Solicitor has asked us who to sue, one or the other?
Because of the reply from Mike Kelly, thanks again Mike, it looks like we can sue both and let the Judge decide who pays what.
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FireSafety101 wrote:ColinT wrote:With respect and with sympathy for your situation, why ask for opinion on here when surely the opinion that counts the most is from your own solicitor.
Colin T
Solicitor has asked us who to sue, one or the other?
Because of the reply from Mike Kelly, thanks again Mike, it looks like we can sue both and let the Judge decide who pays what.
Your solicitor can't be much good if you can get a better response in a matter of minutes on a public forum.
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Back to the OP question. Can 2 separate defendants be called under the same civil action?
I think not.
Which is why the solicitor is asking I guess, but I would have thought he'd be offering opinion based on strength of evidence and likelihood of success.
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I did not feel inclined to elaborate on my original post because the honest answer is I'm not sure. Now that it has become a free for all, if I was a betting person I would say two defendants can be sued jointly in negligence. I did Google it but found nothing of any use.
There is a precedent set for asbestos claims where two or more defendants can be sued and a proportion of the claim is set against the defendant based on culpability decided by the court. There is also the 'but for' test for the second tortfeasor which has been alluded to in another post.
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FireSafety101 wrote:The girl's solicitor employed an expert witness, very well qualified. She has determined there is a case of negligence for both the school and the NHS trust.
My question is simple.
Can they both be sued, together in one case, or does it have to be two separate claims, or can there only be one claim against one of them?
I admit the question/s is/are simple but the answer/s may not be.
Sorry I thought the poster in the quote stated 'the girls solicitor employed an expert witness' the expert witness says they were both at fault. Could they not tell him or are we looking at who they will get the most off? The solicitor should be best placed to answer this.
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This thread is now open for further discussion. Please take care to respect the forum rules when posting.
Thank you
Moderating Team
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Hi Ron,
Yes, you can sue two or more defendants. There are thousands of such cases.
The mechanism is to initially sue all and sundry [say ex employers in the case of asbestos or similar] and the process will sort out the final defendants. ie 'Not me guv he/she only worked here for a little while and wasn't exposed, etc, etc'.
Cases usually are written up as X v Y and others
My favourite examples from way back are
WRIGHT v. DUNLOP RUBBER CO. LTD. AND ANOTHER [The other being ICI] ; CASSIDY v. SAME 1972
COURT OF APPEAL (CIVIL DIVISION)
13 KIR 255
HEARING-DATES: 31 October 1972
31 October 1972
CATCHWORDS:
Negligence — Duty of care — Manufacturer — Purchaser’s employees exposed to chemical containing carcinogen — Whether danger foreseeable.
This was the bladder cancer case involving beta-naphthylamine and ICI and Dunlop squabbled over who was liable. I seem to remember that liability was shared.
More details in Munkman on Employers Liability
Regards
Mike
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Here's another multi defendant case I had a small part in:
Muriel Audrey Palmer [widow of deceased worker-death due to asbestos] v Blue Circle Industries [1st Defendant] and
Cement Marketing Company Ltd [2nd defendant] and
Akzo Coatings plc [3rd defendant] and
Snowcem PMC Ltd [4th defendant] and
Coralskill Ltd[5th Defendant]
Interesting eh?
Mike
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I stand corrected. I has understood that these distilled down into separate actions. Ray's reminder on asbestos claims prodded me in the right direction.
I wonder where you'd get the money these days to take forward that sort of claim........
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Mike, thanks for the further information.
I just googled the case and no information was available. How can I access the case law?
Ron, as coincidence would have it as I opened up this thread my wife handed me a letter just received from the solicitor with a breakdown of costs built up to date.
I won't divulge the information but will say your comment is very apt.
Home insurance contains legal fees cover and if the right type of claim then it can be used, fortunately for us this one is covered, otherwise there would be no claim.
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When I was self employed I had quite a bad accident falling through scaffolding the main contractor paid 90% of the claim and the other 10% was paid by the company that sub contracted the work to me.
Different circumstances but they may well share the total compensation claim.
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Rank: Super forum user
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FireSafety101 wrote:Invictus wrote:FireSafety101 wrote:A school causes injury to a pupil through negligence and the resulting injury is made worse through negligence by NHS nurses.
Can both parties be sued for damages in the same claim, or,
Does it have to be one or the other, or
Can the parties be sued separately?
One for the legal eagles.
Don't sue either, of course depending on how significant the injury is.
The injury was/is significant.
A child with disabilities who had a Care Plan at school which the school ignored.
The injury led to Osteomilitis, hospitalisation, surgery where the wound was cleaned out, almost down to the bone, a long period of time off school with twicw daily visits from hospital nurses to give anti biotic through a long line etc. she is still under the hospital now, some 21 months after the event.
I am very sorry for your plights of course, but nothing above says how the NHS nurses are negligent - can you please elaborate?
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Not sure how much I can say but they were trained in Adult Care and not Child Care.
They took on the care when they should have referred to the department for children's care.
A written apology has been received detailing how they were negligent.
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Hi again Fire Safety
The case in post #20 [ Wright V Dunlop ]is difficult to find as it's quite old.
I have a old Times law report which I found recently but have unfortunately boxed it up prior to our move to La Belle France -so sorry about that. I reckon it will be in Munkman on Employers Liability but that's boxed up too. So if you can find a copy of that you'll be ok-University library or even a City library like Cambridge, etc
I did try BAILII [British and Irish Legal Information Institute] but couldn't get the case yesterday. They may not have it but I'll have another go.
Case in post #21 is unreported. But I have a typed copy of the writ of summons from the Court dated 4 Mar 1993. If you would like a copy, its very interesting, please PM me with your postal address and I'll send a copy on. I actually found this while looking for the Wright case-sods law, eh?
Regards
Mike
PS re negligence cases in NHS: these run into hundreds and more and cost billions every year
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You can’t get two lots of compensation for the same thing so you can only sue once. You would be suing for compensation due to the negligence of others (e.g. your financial losses and/or suffering). If the negligence was contributed by two parties then they both would be named in the citation. It would be the pursuers (claimant) to prove negligence or contributory negligence in the case. If would be down to the defender (defendant) to prove otherwise or appropriate the blame onto the other party.
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Quite so Toe, as is standard in such cases and outlined in my posts above. Your terminology, of course, refers to Scottish Law, eh given your location?
And, in addition to negligence, you may also be able to sue for breach of statutory duty [much easier] although that avenue has been limited in OHS law recently by kicking strict liability into oblivion [post Lofstedt]. A real mistake from my perspective but then taking action as a worker has been made much more difficult across the board eg employment tribunal actions, reduction of legal aid, etc, all part of the ideological deregulation and business friendly policies of the current government and predecessors. And, generally, derisory levels of damages too.
Regards
Mike
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I would look at this from the standpoint of the judge - are the facts so intertwined that it would be a waste of the courts valuable time to hear two cases. Take writs against both and the Judge will decide at the first Case Management meeting to make it one or two cases. The only issue may be that medical negligence issues can be legally aided at least in the investigatory phase. The judge is however the expert in how to proceed so let him choose.
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Hi All,
I thought that the following might help with regard to the issues we have been discussing and the wider scope/application of the Civil Procedure Rules [CPR] [lawyers' bible] in future topics/posts.
Regards
Mike
http://www.drukker.co.uk...ns/reference/litigation/
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Mike, your package receive this morning, many thanks.
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