Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

2 Pages<12
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
andybz  
#41 Posted : 26 October 2016 07:39:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
andybz

Ron H

You are right about sanity checks, but I am concerned that your suggestions are actually moving away from a risk based approach, which requires likelihood and severity to be considered together. 

The "most statistically likely outcome" suggests that the severity of the outcome is not a concern.  Whilst, the "hazards and controls affecting higher populations" suggests that the likelihood is not a concern.

I agree that scoring matrices are only a tool with limited use.  However, they are good at illustrating the concept of risk (severity x liklihood).  The problem is they are often misused.

This is proving to be a very interesting discussion.  It does suggest that our whole approach to risk assessment needs to be reviewed.  It is interesting (worrying) that there is so little consensus on such an important principle in H&S.

rileym  
#42 Posted : 14 November 2016 16:15:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
rileym

In training I always state that the severity is based on the most likely outcome.  I give the example of someone tripping and falling near a desk.  The most likely outcome is bruising/sprains and strains.  A very ulikely outcome is striking your head on the desk as you fall and dying as a result.  I have seen risk assessments written where the author has focussed on the most severe outcome and in my opinion this is not helpful and skews the risk assessment.   I also give the example of a paper cut, painful and very annoying but I have never heard of a paper cut being of a worse severity than this.  Could a paper cut be fatal?  Im sure mythbusters tried this out on ballistic gel or whatever they use to simulate human flesh and decided you could not die from a papercut. 

neil88  
#43 Posted : 15 November 2016 08:14:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
neil88

Originally Posted by: Ron Hunter Go to Quoted Post

Ensure sanity by sticking with the most statistically likely outcome. 


I 'd advise caution using this approach for all but the most inane of activities - by your method you are relying heavily on past outcome as an indicator of risk.  You will miss the risks that have low frequency / massive impact.    The results of your RA also feeds your emergency response, business continuity, crisis mgmt processes - so relying on past outcomes may not prepare the organisation for what might happen

Separately, when used correctly, the risk matrix is also  useful for classifying incidents (actual/potential) and therefore deterimining the investigation levels.

thanks 1 user thanked neil88 for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 15/11/2016(UTC)
RayRapp  
#44 Posted : 15 November 2016 08:38:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Don't know why this thread has resurfaced but it cements my view that RAs are hardly worth the paper they are written on, such are the polarised opinions arising from this thread. Clearly there is no point is using a worse case outcome and there are questions on whether the most likely outcome should be used and now we have the notion that past outcomes should not be relied upon either. Confusing or what?

Personally I feel that too much detail is being applied to what is a basically simple process - paralysis by analysis springs to mind. No one is expected to know the outcome of incidents, major incidents can have minor outcomes and vice versa. I think I'll leave it at that.
A Kurdziel  
#45 Posted : 15 November 2016 10:01:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

As neil88    say’s you have to be careful about this approach since it relies very heavily on assumed outcomes and that enemy of H&S “good old common sense”.

The point of risk assessment is not to create 5 x 5 matrices of varying degrees of complexity but to decide whether a particular process is safe(just that).

Post #42 suggestion is that you should avoid the worst case scenario as they are unlikely to happen, giving an example of the likelihood of someone falling and hitting their head on a desk and dying or being seriously injured. The fact is such scenarios do happen- the worse injury I had to deal with (in an organisation that dealt with biological agents, toxic chemicals, radioactive materials etc) was someone falling over a box of files and severely injuring their shoulder. The unfortunate lady required reconstructive surgery and ended up taking early retirement.

I am not saying that a suitable and sufficient risk assessment would have magically saved her shoulder but the process would have highlighted the issues in that area and focused the minds of some very complaisant staff.

Similarly the issue of paper cuts. We had staff working in registry where they handled hundreds of documents every day. We could have treated this as just an occupational risk but it was having an effect on morale and efficiency, so we decided that staff working in that area should wear cheap disposable cotton gloves. Problem solved, but note the cotton gloves approach only applied in the registry, not in any office. There was no blanket policy as the risk assessment process identified clearly the area which would benefit from the approach to most and enabled us to justify   not applying it elsewhere.

Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages<12
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.