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glennuk  
#1 Posted : 10 August 2017 22:48:07(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
glennuk

Hi I have been picked by my MD to do all aspects of health and safety at or two sites one has about 25 staff other has 5 staff I have a out side advisor that comes once a month to keep me on the right track till I'm up to speed I'm currently doing my iosh managing safety so my question is is there a difference between safety officer and manager ? And if so which one is my job worried The will try to down grade the job but load the job up.
Ian Bell2  
#2 Posted : 10 August 2017 23:52:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

Depending upon the company, the difference is about £15k per year.

UncleFester  
#3 Posted : 11 August 2017 05:33:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
UncleFester

You'll want to be called 'Manager' as you're responsible for managing sites, and possibly people.

Your boss will want you to be called 'officer' as it keeps the salary down.

glennuk  
#4 Posted : 11 August 2017 07:28:31(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
glennuk

Thanks for that at the moment my wages are probably poor for what I do but I'm thinking long term so I'm getting the training and experience and by the sound of your answers the job title could mean more than just a name later on if I move.
lorna  
#5 Posted : 11 August 2017 08:36:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
lorna

Hi - just to add another view. I'm CMIOSH but I'm called Health & Safety Advisor - I had a choice & I made a very deliberate one. As far as I'm concerned, the Dept managers manage health & safety in their areas - along with everything else they manage - I advise them, along with some enabling/facilitating/training (cajoling, hand-holding, occasional scolding...)

Everybody assumed that my predecessor was the only person who managed health & safety - so I suppose I'm marking my line in the sand. I've made it vey cleat that I'll do it WITH them and not FOR them.

The pay & conditions are the same.

Edited by user 11 August 2017 08:37:46(UTC)  | Reason: I type faster than I can spell!

thanks 2 users thanked lorna for this useful post.
RayRapp on 11/08/2017(UTC), JohnW on 15/08/2017(UTC)
RayRapp  
#6 Posted : 11 August 2017 09:36:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

There is a degree of semantics here because the job title will vary according to the size of the company, industry, culture, plus the responsbilities that go with the role - not an exhaustive list either. The important bit is the salary. I have been called everything from manager, adviser, officer, consultant, engineer and many other things in between, but never - over paid!

thanks 1 user thanked RayRapp for this useful post.
lorna on 14/08/2017(UTC)
simon73  
#7 Posted : 11 August 2017 09:44:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
simon73

Originally Posted by: lorna Go to Quoted Post

Hi - just to add another view. I'm CMIOSH but I'm called Health & Safety Advisor - I had a choice & I made a very deliberate one. As far as I'm concerned, the Dept managers manage health & safety in their areas - along with everything else they manage - I advise them, along with some enabling/facilitating/training (cajoling, hand-holding, occasional scolding...)

Everybody assumed that my predecessor was the only person who managed health & safety - so I suppose I'm marking my line in the sand. I've made it vey cleat that I'll do it WITH them and not FOR them.

The pay & conditions are the same.

Really good point Lorna. I too am CMIOSH and am part of a small team of similarly qualified 'SHEQ Advisors'.

 glennuk, I agree with much of what has been said. Ensure that your employer understands that they can delegate some responsibility to you but they cannot delegate their accountability.

IOSH Managing Safely is a great course which will certainly benefit you and I would also recommend that you consider moving on to a NEBOSH General Cert as this will give you a greater depth of knowledge than the MS alone.

Best of luck.

watcher  
#8 Posted : 11 August 2017 11:10:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
watcher

Like Simon and Lorna, I am a H & S Adviser.  I don't actively manage H & S, that's for the managers to do. 

In previous jobs I've done, the H & S Manager has actually managed a H & S team, with various specialists and grades.  It was the team he was managing, not the H & S, if you see what I mean.

I see you have an external adviser supporting you, so perhaps you would be better calling yourself a H & S Coordinator. 

I'm not sure what you meant by the job title meaning more than just a name if you move.  If I was recruiting, I would look at experience, skills and qualifications.  I wouldn't consider the actual job title to mean very much, as there is no real consistency across the profession.

I also agree with Simon,  Managing Safely should only be a starting point.  Personally, and I mean this with respect, I would raise my eyebrows a bit at someone calling themselves a H & S Manager, when they were only in the middle of doing the MS. 

I'm sure once you've finished the course, your appetite will be whetted and you'll want to go on and do a H & S qualification

Good luck :-)

Shopland23872  
#9 Posted : 14 August 2017 20:17:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Shopland23872

As all have said above I agree with. However the term health and safety officer is a generic term usually associated with a slightly more junior role. But if you actually look at the definition below, an officer of the company is in fact a senior title. It may be worth showing this to your employer and discussing how senior the role is. Section 2(59) of the Companies Act, 2013 defines “officer” to include any director, manager or key managerial personnel or any person in accordance with whose directions or instructions the Board of Directors or any one or more of the directors is or are accustomed to act. My title is advisor, but my job is actually a H&S manager, but I am covered by a separate Directors and Officers insurance policy, to specifically cover myself and the directors due to my role. The title of manager must mean that you have unlimited access to a suitable budget and an agreed level of authority to perform the role (basically to act and manage without the need to seek permission from the directors) . If you do not have this access you can only be defined in the eyes of the law as an advisor. I hope that this helps
biker1  
#10 Posted : 15 August 2017 15:27:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

I have always thought that the title 'health and safety manager' gives entirely the wrong impression, and has probably been responsible for more lack of ownership of h&s by directors and managers than most things. Advisor is a much more helpful title, since this is what most h&s people actually do. I once held the title of national safety and quality manager for a company, and not surprisingly there was little ownership of h&s amongst managers up to MD level. The MD's opinion was that h&s looked after itself, which summed up the attitude of the management (and for that matter a large proportion of the workforce). You can only bang your head against a wall for so long before you realise it is really hurting, and you then have to either sink into the mire of complacency that pervades the organisation, or leave. I left.

thanks 1 user thanked biker1 for this useful post.
lorna on 16/08/2017(UTC)
Invictus  
#11 Posted : 16 August 2017 09:40:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Yea agree with tghe majority it just depends, I look at the role of H&S as being 3 fold:

Officer: does the job, write risk assessments etc and sends them out, quite often undermined by the managers and just given the tasks.

An Advisor, he does what it says on the tin, he supports management in all processes of H&S, assists with risk assessments, trains, inspections, managers come to him for help.

Manager, ensures that all, the legislative requires are being met, policies are written and up to date, ensures that area or section managers are completing R/A's, COSHH assessments, inspections etc. supports managers to make improvements by giving the information required (advisor role), completes training (as an advisor), normally has direct line to CEO, writes reports, ensures actions are completed etc. Supports the officer and advisor if you have anyone reporting to you. But like the officer and the advisor everyone knows everything about H&S anyway so who I'm I to tell them, they have always done it this way and never been hurt and H&S just slows down the job. So just like the officers and advisors the abuse ids still the same only now I have to wear a tie to be abused.

thanks 1 user thanked Invictus for this useful post.
chris42 on 16/08/2017(UTC)
Stern  
#12 Posted : 18 August 2017 10:31:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Stern

From my experience, the titles of manager/advisor/officer have always been as follows:

The H&S manager is the person at the head of the company's "H&S department", whether it's just him/her on their own or a large team spread across multiple locations. The manager is the one who reports to the directors, who writes the policies and has overall responsibility for ensuring that the company has all the tools it needs to be compliant on a day-to-day basis (and before anyone jumps on that last bit, yes i know that the directors have the overall responsibility but i'm more referring to the day-to-day stuff). 

So far as the terms "advisor" and "officer" go, in my experience they are faily interchangeable and ultimately do the same thing. They are the ones out on the ground, auditting, inspecting, training and doing the day-to-day jobs which have been delegated to them by the manager.

However, i would add that i dislike the term "officer" and am always quick to correct people if/when they refer to me as one. To me, the word has a very negative vibe and gives the wrong impression of what we do. I much prefer to be called an advisor and usually just introduce myseld as the "safety bloke"!

Edited by user 18 August 2017 10:39:31(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Stern  
#13 Posted : 18 August 2017 10:37:41(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Stern

Originally Posted by: biker1 Go to Quoted Post

I have always thought that the title 'health and safety manager' gives entirely the wrong impression, and has probably been responsible for more lack of ownership of h&s by directors and managers than most things. Advisor is a much more helpful title, since this is what most h&s people actually do. I once held the title of national safety and quality manager for a company, and not surprisingly there was little ownership of h&s amongst managers up to MD level. The MD's opinion was that h&s looked after itself, which summed up the attitude of the management (and for that matter a large proportion of the workforce). You can only bang your head against a wall for so long before you realise it is really hurting, and you then have to either sink into the mire of complacency that pervades the organisation, or leave. I left.

A good point Biker. I spent most of my career as an H&S advisor for a large national company, working as part of a small team of H&S advisors. Whilst my manager was called the "Group H&S Manager", as a department we were very clear with the rest of the company about our role; "We'll tell you what you need to do, but we're not doing it for you" was the general gyst of it!

I now work as a H&S manager myself and whilst i have unfortunately acquired the dreaded title of "H&S manager", i have made sure to instill that same ethos with my current employer.

Edited by user 18 August 2017 10:38:16(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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