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szone  
#1 Posted : 04 September 2017 08:57:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
szone

I am looking at my next course of action to take in regards to my career, having been in H&S for 12 years ranging from working for a small contactor, a Regional Manager for logistics, National HS Manager for a Solar PV company, HSE Consultant for another national orgnaisation,  to now being a CDM Advisor / Principle Designer. 

I am Chartered IOSH, Charted MCIOB and have a BSc (hons) in Safety, Health and Env Management.

I have heard BIM has released a PAS 1192-6 document, stating that H&S will be incorporated into BIM early. However at present I have no knowledge of BIM. So just a thought of something to get into. 

I have also looked at possibly getting into HS adjudication, but as HS offences are criminal I don't think this will work. I am trying to think out of the box slightly to get a higher salary. 

Additionally I have thought about starting up on my own as a CDM Consultant but this comes with a huge risk and not knowing if it will actually work. 

I do not know anyone who contracts in H&S but have seen good day rates, but the contracts seem to be between 3-6 months, so again a big risk. 

So I am really after opinions from people on what they think is going to produce a big salary increase. 

I earn ok now, but am a late bloomer on getting onto the property market, married, kids etc so have all these to consider fairly quickly, hence why I am actively looking at ways to earn more. 

Any help much appreciated, even if by PM.

Thanks in advance. 

Edited by user 04 September 2017 16:33:26(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Ian Bell2  
#2 Posted : 04 September 2017 11:21:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

I would recommend accountancy or fincial services.

Unless you happen to be lucky and have set up a successful h&s consultancy with enough clients - then there are few big salaries in the world of h&s - salaries are all tightly controlled and have narrow progression bands.

No shortage of people wanting to work in h&s. Another reason salaries are tightly controlled.

thanks 2 users thanked Ian Bell2 for this useful post.
szone on 04/09/2017(UTC), David Thomas on 04/09/2017(UTC)
szone  
#3 Posted : 04 September 2017 11:42:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
szone

Originally Posted by: Ian Bell2 Go to Quoted Post

I would recommend accountancy or fincial services.

Unless you happen to be lucky and have set up a successful h&s consultancy with enough clients - then there are few big salaries in the world of h&s - salaries are all tightly controlled and have narrow progression bands.

No shortage of people wanting to work in h&s. Another reason salaries are tightly controlled.

Thanks Ian, I think at my age of 33 it is too late to study, gain experince and get a good salary in finance.

Thanks Ian. I feel at 33 it may be a bit too late to get into finance.

A Kurdziel  
#4 Posted : 04 September 2017 15:18:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

People who combine H&S and law can do well, but you will need to go for qualifications etc.

PS  you are never too old to gain qualifications it’s just that as you get older you have more distractions like family and stuff which make it more difficult.  

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
szone on 04/09/2017(UTC)
szone  
#5 Posted : 04 September 2017 15:41:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
szone

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

People who combine H&S and law can do well, but you will need to go for qualifications etc.

PS  you are never too old to gain qualifications it’s just that as you get older you have more distractions like family and stuff which make it more difficult.  


Thanks  - Can you recommend any specific courses, careere or routes to take as I have no idea where to start looking

David Thomas  
#6 Posted : 04 September 2017 22:52:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
David Thomas

I did my MSc at 39 and competed by PHD by 52. Of course you can retrain and at 33 you have at least 2 careers ahead. My advice, get a financial audit qualification leading to lead audit . This will give you hard currency across much of the UK as well as internationally.
Additionally with Brexit consider that in Europe, German may become no 1 language...
Roundtuit  
#7 Posted : 05 September 2017 20:18:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Back at the formation of the EEC we were told Esparanto was going to be the language of Europe - pity lingusst had no commercial understanding

thanks 1 user thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
szone on 14/09/2017(UTC)
Zyggy  
#8 Posted : 10 September 2017 19:15:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zyggy

Many moons ago I had similar thoughts & to increase my annual salary I started to diversify what I did, but within H&S.

I started by taking on some lecturing work; initially for the NEBOSH Certificate & then moving on to the Diploma & Degree courses. I have to say however, that the money was/is not fantastic, but it all adds up!

I was then lucky enough to be asked to do some expert witness work & apart from finding it fascinating, the remuneration is very good!

For some reason (money I guess) I also started working as a Safety Steward at a Premier League Club & again money not brilliant, but it all helped! Twenty years on I am still there & now work at a very senior level.

By sharing what I have done I am trying to say that if you think outside the box, your current H&S experience can move you into paths you may not have thought of.

Incidentally, I started as a consultant 5 years ago & wish that I had done it sooner.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
thanks 1 user thanked Zyggy for this useful post.
szone on 14/09/2017(UTC)
szone  
#9 Posted : 14 September 2017 19:03:47(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
szone

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Back at the formation of the EEC we were told Esparanto was going to be the language of Europe - pity lingusst had no commercial understanding


What do you mean?

szone  
#10 Posted : 14 September 2017 19:09:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
szone

Originally Posted by: Zyggy Go to Quoted Post
Many moons ago I had similar thoughts & to increase my annual salary I started to diversify what I did, but within H&S.

I started by taking on some lecturing work; initially for the NEBOSH Certificate & then moving on to the Diploma & Degree courses. I have to say however, that the money was/is not fantastic, but it all adds up!

I was then lucky enough to be asked to do some expert witness work & apart from finding it fascinating, the remuneration is very good!

For some reason (money I guess) I also started working as a Safety Steward at a Premier League Club & again money not brilliant, but it all helped! Twenty years on I am still there & now work at a very senior level.

By sharing what I have done I am trying to say that if you think outside the box, your current H&S experience can move you into paths you may not have thought of.

Incidentally, I started as a consultant 5 years ago & wish that I had done it sooner.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Thanks for sharing. 

I am looking at every angle now, going into finance now I think will take two years to train then move up for a few years before I get a big salary. 

Currently mid 40's but looking to hit at least 70-80. 

This can be acheieved through HS, but I need to work out what to specialise in or how to shoot to directorship. 

Ian Bell2  
#11 Posted : 15 September 2017 00:53:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

Do let us know when you get a h&s job paying £70-80k. Very rare to see such salaries just in occupational h&s on a PAYE basis.

Safety engineering pays better than h&s, even then only circa £55-65k in a PAYE role.

Given the current economic poor situation most h&s jobs appear stuck around the £45k PAYE, where they have been for quite a few years. Occasionally mid £50k's for some Principal Designer jobs.

Successful freelance consultants might earn more

thanks 1 user thanked Ian Bell2 for this useful post.
szone on 19/09/2017(UTC)
billstrak  
#12 Posted : 15 September 2017 04:07:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
billstrak

Originally Posted by: Ian Bell2 Go to Quoted Post

Do let us know when you get a h&s job paying £70-80k. Very rare to see such salaries just in occupational h&s on a PAYE basis.

Safety engineering pays better than h&s, even then only circa £55-65k in a PAYE role.

Given the current economic poor situation most h&s jobs appear stuck around the £45k PAYE, where they have been for quite a few years. Occasionally mid £50k's for some Principal Designer jobs.

Successful freelance consultants might earn more

Lack of larger salaries in specific industries may be the norm; however it is all about thinking outside the box again. Many International assignments often command large salaries (sometimes tax-free), albeit with addititional  isolation and risks involved, but the financial gain is not to be scoffed at........ 

thanks 1 user thanked billstrak for this useful post.
szone on 19/09/2017(UTC)
Ian Bell2  
#13 Posted : 15 September 2017 07:23:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

In other words go and work in some remote country which may or may not also have a high risk of violence and personal injury/kidnapp. Personally I value my life more than a few thousands pounds extra in the bank.

thanks 1 user thanked Ian Bell2 for this useful post.
szone on 19/09/2017(UTC)
Zyggy  
#14 Posted : 15 September 2017 20:27:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zyggy

Further to my previous post, £70-80k is achievable as a consultant with hard work & a large slice of good fortune!

However, this will not happen overnight & may take years to achieve. From your first post it sounds like you may have a large mortgage, but even if not, you say you have kids & bills have to be paid - do you have the finances to get you through those first years?

From my own personal experience as a consultant I learnt the following:

1. Only go for work that you are competent to do. There is a temptation to take on any paid work at the start - resist it! Also, it would be against the IOSH Code of Conduct if you are a member + your reputation would go down the pan if you messed up!

2. Try & find a niche market. It might take you a while to decide what this actually is, but once you establish yourself it's amazing how this generates work. I have had many 'calls which start with "I was talking to so & so & they recommended you..."

3. Never underprice yourself just to get work. There will be the usual tax; NI to pay + PI & PL insurances + fallow times.

4. Get some very professional business cards (use both sides!) & sprinkle then around like confetti at any gathering you go to!

5. Plan ahead ....& plan ahead some more!

Again, good luck & please PM me if you want any further info - happy to help if I can.
thanks 1 user thanked Zyggy for this useful post.
szone on 17/09/2017(UTC)
szone  
#15 Posted : 17 September 2017 12:33:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
szone

Originally Posted by: Zyggy Go to Quoted Post
Further to my previous post, £70-80k is achievable as a consultant with hard work & a large slice of good fortune!

However, this will not happen overnight & may take years to achieve. From your first post it sounds like you may have a large mortgage, but even if not, you say you have kids & bills have to be paid - do you have the finances to get you through those first years?

From my own personal experience as a consultant I learnt the following:

1. Only go for work that you are competent to do. There is a temptation to take on any paid work at the start - resist it! Also, it would be against the IOSH Code of Conduct if you are a member + your reputation would go down the pan if you messed up!

2. Try & find a niche market. It might take you a while to decide what this actually is, but once you establish yourself it's amazing how this generates work. I have had many 'calls which start with "I was talking to so & so & they recommended you..."

3. Never underprice yourself just to get work. There will be the usual tax; NI to pay + PI & PL insurances + fallow times.

4. Get some very professional business cards (use both sides!) & sprinkle then around like confetti at any gathering you go to!

5. Plan ahead ....& plan ahead some more!

Again, good luck & please PM me if you want any further info - happy to help if I can.

Thanks for your post. 

I currently don't have the overheads you mentioned but they are on the horizon. 

I honestly thought a successful and busy consultant could earn more than the figure you stated. 

But again, thanks for your insight into this. 

How long have you been a consultant for, which area of the UK do you live in, do you specialize in a particular area, do you have quiet spells and do you just work for yourself or have people working for you as well?

As I was thinking long term, if I went off on my own to aim to have my own consultancy

Zyggy  
#16 Posted : 18 September 2017 09:08:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zyggy

The £70-80k is the figure I thought you mentioned at #10, & it seems that Ian thinks the same! When I re-read it, did you mean that you hoped to live to be 70-80 instead?

If that is the case, then I have no idea what the ceiling might be for an independent consultant - maybe somebody else could add to this debate?

To answer your questions; I live in the NW & all my clients are within daily travelling distance (I don't take on work that means overnight stays); have been a consultant for 5.5 years; I do now specialise in two areas, but I also work PAYE for a large Premier League Club ; I am a one-man band, but have a fire specialist who assists me on occasion & yes, there are quiet spells, but from a work life balance perspective, it's great!

I have been very lucky to get the clients I have & have no compunction in letting work go if I don't think that it's in my or their best interest.
thanks 1 user thanked Zyggy for this useful post.
szone on 19/09/2017(UTC)
Ian Bell2  
#17 Posted : 18 September 2017 10:21:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

As a general point health and safety as a job/career is only middle ranking in terms of salary. Sure you need some qualifications, but most h&s roles are quite easy after a modest amount of experience. Their is little unique about the job and the job market is flooded with people qualified to a modest level which is sufficient for most employers to be able to pick and choose from. Hence why salary bands are quite narrow and the upper limit quite well defined. SUre, occasionally you do see jobs paying £70-80k or better but not very often.

As regards self employment - and fair enough to those who are, again its a flooded market with single/small consultancies, so chargeable rates are limited unless you are lucky to find clients prepared to pay over the odds. When contracts in London are being advertised in London - currently circa £280-330/day - then you aren't going to get rich on that sort of pay. Any travel to work/hotel costs will quickly knock a large hole in your earnings.

The drawback of being a 1 man comsultancy is in addition to the above chargeable rates, there are only so many hours you can work. Its easy to work out. There are about 1880 working hours per year (47 weeks @ 40hrs per year) if you charged £60/hr, gives a gross income of £112800/yr. If registered as a Ltd Company, to allow for taxes (Corporation Tax etc) then factor this down by about 0.75.  Then allow a small amount for operating expenses - insurance, IOSH memberships, accoutancy fees, guidance documents you might buy etc etc - say £4k.

So if you took all availbe dividends /salary out of the company would give a salary circa £81600. 

But you need to put money to one side for a rainy day, pay all of your own pension (£6k/yr??) etc, personal tax would be in the region of £20-23k. Leaving you with in the region of £55k. So not much better off than PAYE.

The massive assumption is that you are able to charge for all of your 1880hrs per year - which is highly unlikely. More like 60% of your hours, especially in the early years. Sure you can make a living as a 1 man consultancy, but don't expect to be rolling in cash as a general consultant. Some people get lucky and earn a very good living.

Solution - find an industry that pays above average - that used to be the oil industry, especially as a safety engineer. This is no longer the case, with the drop in oil prices. 

Alternatively work through the 1 man consultancy level of work and start employing other consultants, taking a cut of their rate. If you were to get to 4-5 other consultants, would mean a good income. But you do have extra business headaches/costs.

Ian Bell2  
#18 Posted : 18 September 2017 11:45:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

SInce posting the previous message, I have taken a call from an agency asking if I was interested in working a contract for £167/day - just short of £21/hr approx.

My answer...... I'll leave you to work it out.

Waz  
#19 Posted : 18 September 2017 13:26:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Waz

As Jessie J said 'Its all about the money, money, money....'  SORRY, that was the originator of this discussion. 

I'm not sure many of us who are CMIOSH would be driven in entirity by money; surely its about the impact on people and the ability to influence a reduction in accidents and increase and or maintain standards in health and safety in the workplace?

I've done consultancy (£330 per day) on my own business, but contracted to a particular organisation; similarly I have done consultancy under PAYE, both provided reasonable standards of living for what I want in life e.g. family, friends and work-life balance.  I'm in a role now chosen because of the organisation and the people, not the salary offered.

Not sure there are likely to be many jobs in H&S with £60k plus, let alone £70-80k.  I've been out in the Middle East (returning Jan 2016) and I was realistic when I came back on salary expectations - so much so that I returned 29th Jan and started work in the UK on 1st Feb!  Be realistic, many of us have commitments, its about managing expectation v commitment and being realistic.

thanks 2 users thanked Waz for this useful post.
szone on 19/09/2017(UTC), lorna on 20/09/2017(UTC)
szone  
#20 Posted : 19 September 2017 17:07:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
szone

Originally Posted by: Zyggy Go to Quoted Post
The £70-80k is the figure I thought you mentioned at #10, & it seems that Ian thinks the same! When I re-read it, did you mean that you hoped to live to be 70-80 instead?

If that is the case, then I have no idea what the ceiling might be for an independent consultant - maybe somebody else could add to this debate?

To answer your questions; I live in the NW & all my clients are within daily travelling distance (I don't take on work that means overnight stays); have been a consultant for 5.5 years; I do now specialise in two areas, but I also work PAYE for a large Premier League Club ; I am a one-man band, but have a fire specialist who assists me on occasion & yes, there are quiet spells, but from a work life balance perspective, it's great!

I have been very lucky to get the clients I have & have no compunction in letting work go if I don't think that it's in my or their best interest.

Originally Posted by: Ian Bell2 Go to Quoted Post

As a general point health and safety as a job/career is only middle ranking in terms of salary. Sure you need some qualifications, but most h&s roles are quite easy after a modest amount of experience. Their is little unique about the job and the job market is flooded with people qualified to a modest level which is sufficient for most employers to be able to pick and choose from. Hence why salary bands are quite narrow and the upper limit quite well defined. SUre, occasionally you do see jobs paying £70-80k or better but not very often.

As regards self employment - and fair enough to those who are, again its a flooded market with single/small consultancies, so chargeable rates are limited unless you are lucky to find clients prepared to pay over the odds. When contracts in London are being advertised in London - currently circa £280-330/day - then you aren't going to get rich on that sort of pay. Any travel to work/hotel costs will quickly knock a large hole in your earnings.

The drawback of being a 1 man comsultancy is in addition to the above chargeable rates, there are only so many hours you can work. Its easy to work out. There are about 1880 working hours per year (47 weeks @ 40hrs per year) if you charged £60/hr, gives a gross income of £112800/yr. If registered as a Ltd Company, to allow for taxes (Corporation Tax etc) then factor this down by about 0.75.  Then allow a small amount for operating expenses - insurance, IOSH memberships, accoutancy fees, guidance documents you might buy etc etc - say £4k.

So if you took all availbe dividends /salary out of the company would give a salary circa £81600. 

But you need to put money to one side for a rainy day, pay all of your own pension (£6k/yr??) etc, personal tax would be in the region of £20-23k. Leaving you with in the region of £55k. So not much better off than PAYE.

The massive assumption is that you are able to charge for all of your 1880hrs per year - which is highly unlikely. More like 60% of your hours, especially in the early years. Sure you can make a living as a 1 man consultancy, but don't expect to be rolling in cash as a general consultant. Some people get lucky and earn a very good living.

Solution - find an industry that pays above average - that used to be the oil industry, especially as a safety engineer. This is no longer the case, with the drop in oil prices. 

Alternatively work through the 1 man consultancy level of work and start employing other consultants, taking a cut of their rate. If you were to get to 4-5 other consultants, would mean a good income. But you do have extra business headaches/costs.


Ian – Thank you for your break down of the costs of being a consultant, that is really helpful as I don’t think many people think of the overheads, tax etc.

 

It has certainly helped me think that this would be a very risky move and to look else where for the extra income.

 

Thanks again

szone  
#21 Posted : 19 September 2017 17:14:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
szone

Originally Posted by: Waz Go to Quoted Post

As Jessie J said 'Its all about the money, money, money....'  SORRY, that was the originator of this discussion. 

I'm not sure many of us who are CMIOSH would be driven in entirity by money; surely its about the impact on people and the ability to influence a reduction in accidents and increase and or maintain standards in health and safety in the workplace?

I've done consultancy (£330 per day) on my own business, but contracted to a particular organisation; similarly I have done consultancy under PAYE, both provided reasonable standards of living for what I want in life e.g. family, friends and work-life balance.  I'm in a role now chosen because of the organisation and the people, not the salary offered.

Not sure there are likely to be many jobs in H&S with £60k plus, let alone £70-80k.  I've been out in the Middle East (returning Jan 2016) and I was realistic when I came back on salary expectations - so much so that I returned 29th Jan and started work in the UK on 1st Feb!  Be realistic, many of us have commitments, its about managing expectation v commitment and being realistic.

Again thanks for the solid advice.

 

I live in London, so the better salary and contract jobs are close by.

 

£330 a day sounds great, but taking into account Ian’s advice above not so great.

 

I have looked at the Middle East for a long time and had no luck, got right through to the last hurdle and was waiting for the contract at 7k tax free a month which fell through and never been close since.

 

What part of the ME was you in what was your role, package and was your salary close to mine. 

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