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ShaunBaker91  
#1 Posted : 12 October 2017 14:09:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ShaunBaker91

I work at a manufacturing plant and we have currently had an extension built, there have been a number of contractors on site and the other day, our maintenance department borrowed a contractor our step ladders.

What are the current standings in legislation if the contractor was to fall? would the company be responsible as it is our equipment, even though our ladders are regularly checked or would the contractor be responsible as an independant contractor?

georgiaredmayne  
#2 Posted : 12 October 2017 17:51:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
georgiaredmayne

Certain companies have policies on this in that contractors are not able to use their equipment. There are some issues here: - how do you know the contractor is competent to undertake this task, have you evidenced this? - if the ladder fails due to lack of inspection and maintenance then the HSE could find you at fault. - how do you know that the contractor is not going to use the ladder in means that it should not be used I.e is a short duration task, is the environment safe.
thanks 1 user thanked georgiaredmayne for this useful post.
ShaunBaker91 on 13/10/2017(UTC)
ShaunBaker91  
#3 Posted : 13 October 2017 08:15:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ShaunBaker91

Hiya Georgia,

We have usage inspections by our onsite engineers these are checked off regularly whenever used, if the ladder has not been used for a longer period of time the engineers have to add the ladder check to the weekly maintenance checks.

My main issue is that our engineers keep 'lending' the ladders to the contractors on site, when told they shouldnt they respond 'its only a ladder, its common sense how to use one, its checked and safe to use'.

I have asked the contractors to refrain from using our ladders until they show and explain use of ladders.

I was wondering if there was any legislation that would help me out explaining why they shouldn't use ladders.

I have read through the CDM regs trying to find a point that would emphasis the point but CDM is mainly duties based so doe not give much help.

RayRapp  
#4 Posted : 13 October 2017 08:24:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

The reality is if the ladders are fit for purpose then there should not be any issues. There is always a worse case scenario which someone can quote - that is the nature of this industry.

Probably the only way you can prevent contractors borrowing things is to insist they bring their own equipment.

thanks 1 user thanked RayRapp for this useful post.
georgiaredmayne on 13/10/2017(UTC)
ShaunBaker91  
#5 Posted : 13 October 2017 08:29:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ShaunBaker91

Originally Posted by: RayRapp Go to Quoted Post

The reality is if the ladders are fit for purpose then there should not be any issues. There is always a worse case scenario which someone can quote - that is the nature of this industry.

Probably the only way you can prevent contractors borrowing things is to insist they bring their own equipment.

Hi RayRapp,

as I said the ladders have a register where they are checked but if a contractor was to fall and state he had not had training in use of ladders (all our engineers, technicians and employees using ladders are trained and have an internal certificate for use of ladders) but if a contractor falls after lending our equipment (they did have their own step ladders but only 2 and required 3 so borrowed ours) if they claim they hadn't had training obviously we don't have anything to show that they had and the engineers provided the step ladder assuming they knew safe usage, if they had an accident and claimed not to have received training would we be liable for it.

Shaun.

Roundtuit  
#6 Posted : 13 October 2017 08:51:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

I presume these are notifiable works / subject to CDM - where this has occured in previous roles the construction activity was undertaken in an area of our premises contractually demarkated as being under the control of the PC from commencement of works until client acceptance. This defined area prevented conflict of arrangements between our normal business, and the PC's site, arrangements e.g. hard hat and Hi-Vis

Separately we have contractors where access equipment is made available by us either in a planned manner e.g. hiring of MEWP/scaffold as part of a contract order or breakdown e.g. loan of a ladder/platform

Here not only do we have duties regarding the equipment maintenance and suitability but also control the activity through site induction/agreement of works methods, vetting the skills/training of contractor personnel and monitoring the task

If the contractors are now fitting out in a live factory environment who is actually controlling the activity - you or a PC?

I would much rather loan a known ladder for an agreed task as it wouldn't matter whose ladder a contractor fell from, as premises controller you are ultimately responsible for all site activity (did you inspect the contractors wonky wooden steps before permitting their use at your site?).

A Kurdziel  
#7 Posted : 13 October 2017 15:43:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I think the issue might be a bit more subtle depending on what you are doing.If you simply lend them a ladder, then as long at the ladder is maintained etc then you should be ok If you TELL them to use that ladder then you must make sure that the ladder and how it’s used is suitable for the job they want to use itfor ( as you are now exercising a higher level of control). You may even have to make sure that they are using the ladder correctly.

ShaunBaker91  
#8 Posted : 16 October 2017 10:11:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ShaunBaker91

Thanks guys,

in return to previous remark of who is in charge there is a principle contractor who maintained the project along side the project manager when these are away there is issues regarding who is in charge I suggested the HSE manager who is in a dual role this would therefore put myself in charge of the project, our senior engineer suggested himself with which I agreed as long as he thought of the health and safety implications and anywhere that he did not have greater knowledge (legislation, certain jobs (being a previous plasterer and electrician i know the construction side of the job)) that he had to cooperate with the hse department to ensure it is conducted safely rather than quickest method.

fortunately all contractors are due to leave site next week so there should be less hastle now.

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