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CptBeaky  
#1 Posted : 27 September 2019 08:28:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

We are hiring a 21m articulated truck mounted platform to help us remove 32 windows from the first floor of 15 houses. (this is not something we normally do, usually we would sub-contract it completely). It will be our fitter on the platform, however the operator will be supplied by the supplier. The supplier will also be erecting a pedestrian barrier and installing a terraplas walkway.

I asked them for a LOLER cert prior to us starting the work, along with any risk assessments/ method statements they had relating to the work; so that I may align ours with theirs. They told me "Risk Assessments and Method Statements would be the Hires responsibility to arrange, this isn’t something we advise due to the different site requirements."

Is this standard practise? It seems strange concidering they will be operating this equipment and carrying out other work that they have none. I am strictly manufacturing experienced, and therefore have very little knowledge of how construction companies operate outside the general information given during the NEBOSH certificate training.

fiesta  
#2 Posted : 27 September 2019 15:15:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
fiesta

Hi, I'd expect that if the machine is operateted by one of the suppliers employees that they supply a RA / MS for that aspect of the work. i.e. safe operation of that machinery in a work site environment. It'll be generic no doubt. As you say, you will have to create your own RA / MS covering the actual works undertaken from the platform by your employees and any other site related issues that are relevent, such as the barriers, and then mesh the 2 together so that everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet.

Andy

RayRapp  
#3 Posted : 27 September 2019 19:51:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Hmm, I would be a bit concerned with their response. Providing a copy of a LOLER cert is the absolute minimum for starters. Your company as the main contractor are responsible for the organisations you sub-contract and therefore you must make reasonable efforts to ensure they are competent for the task and the equipment they supply is fit for purpose.

As fiesta has stated, the machine supplier should provide RAs - it's a legal requirement, even though these will no doubt be generic RAs. I would also go so far as to ask for the competencies of the articulated truck operator. 

peter gotch  
#4 Posted : 28 September 2019 16:56:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

I would be VERY concerned by the response and thinking about finding another supplier.

The supplier should understand what you want to do as part of the decision making process as to what access equipment might be appropriate. They would need information as to e.g. obstructions that make positioning the equipment difficult in order to help you decide on what you hire.

....and certification for both plant and operator should be a matter of routine to this hire company.

thanks 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 30/09/2019(UTC)
stevedm  
#5 Posted : 29 September 2019 14:02:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

In this instacnce it appears that you don't have a full contracted out activity...so all you are hiring is an operator and a crane?...in that case you assume the duties of the responsible/ appointed person and therefore all of the requirements to complete risk assessments and method statements...perhaps there was a reason you contracted the full activity before...perhaps you dpon't have the competence in house?...so now I would be worried about you guys not the hire company... :)

thanks 1 user thanked stevedm for this useful post.
mihai_qa on 30/09/2019(UTC)
mihai_qa  
#6 Posted : 30 September 2019 06:24:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mihai_qa

To add onto what's already been said, do the MSRA with your team and send it to the supplier/sub to follow (review, acknowledge, accept). The equipment and operator should be certified and competent but the actual work will be done by your company. You'll decide on the stages of work and assess the risks at each stage. 

Seems like the sub has taken a good decision not to get involved. How will they assess their clients' work?

Construction is a fun business where everyone's more interested in transfering risk as much as possible. The DIY part is where things go poop.

CptBeaky  
#7 Posted : 30 September 2019 08:06:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

Originally Posted by: stevedm Go to Quoted Post

.so now I would be worried about you guys not the hire company... :)

Thanks for all the replies. I find it hard to argue with this. One of the most important parts of H&S in my opinion is knowing when you don't know something. I do have past RAMS from previous work done, but even then I wouldn''t have the knowledge to accurately be able to take into account the dynamic nature of a work site, for example weather etc.

I will recommend that we contract the whole process out.

stevedm  
#8 Posted : 30 September 2019 08:50:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

...just a turn of phrase from previous posts in the thread...I would be saying that unless you can also hire an appropriatly competent person to complete/ and or supervise the job....there are some freelancers out there that can provide the service or even the hire company for an extra fee?

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