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CptBeaky  
#361 Posted : 03 June 2020 11:42:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

Originally Posted by: John Murray Go to Quoted Post

Since he is [apparently] going to make "antifa" a terrorist "organisation", and since the blue party are, basically, antifascists ?

terrorist - a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

Seems to me they fit the definition, whether we agree with them or not. Punching nazis, or threatening to do so is unlawful violence and intimidation. These "nazis" are normally civilians. They have a political aim.

I am a pacifist, violence is only acceptable in self defence. I also question who gets to decide who the fascists are. Given antifa's record on governing free speech, deplatforming the opposition etc. the line is very blurred. I hate Trump and all he stands for as much as the next person (unless the next person is BOJO, obviously), but threatening violence towards the opposition is never ok.

That being said, it still baffles me that the KKK aren't also on that list, along with the idiots that bring their guns to protests.

biker1  
#362 Posted : 03 June 2020 14:54:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Let's face it, the USA still has a Wild West mentality. 'We all gonna shoot up the town'. Wyatt Earp wouldn't be out of place in many of their cities at the moment. Bringing assault weapons to protests doesn't qualify them as peaceful protests, neither does taking the opportunity to loot Macy's. The country does have a history of institutionalised racism; it even featured as a factor in a civil war. The death of Mr Floyd was the spark that ignited a tense situation made more tense by weeks of lockdown. Any president worth the title would have an appreciation of this; Trump however does not.

thanks 1 user thanked biker1 for this useful post.
CptBeaky on 03/06/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#363 Posted : 03 June 2020 15:58:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Potus is now being called "Bunker Baby" but he only went in for a very short time to inspect it.

Defence Scretary Esper is likely not to be invited having stated he would not be sending in the troops.

Meanwhile in Tel-Aviv football players are requested to pass through a disinfection tunnel

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52905125 can you see the Premier League prima donnas putting up with such treatment?

Is this another Snake Oil backed by Trump?

Edited by user 03 June 2020 16:01:47(UTC)  | Reason: correction to emphasis

Roundtuit  
#364 Posted : 03 June 2020 15:58:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Potus is now being called "Bunker Baby" but he only went in for a very short time to inspect it.

Defence Scretary Esper is likely not to be invited having stated he would not be sending in the troops.

Meanwhile in Tel-Aviv football players are requested to pass through a disinfection tunnel

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52905125 can you see the Premier League prima donnas putting up with such treatment?

Is this another Snake Oil backed by Trump?

Edited by user 03 June 2020 16:01:47(UTC)  | Reason: correction to emphasis

biker1  
#365 Posted : 04 June 2020 08:24:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

No, it would mess up their hair after they have used the dandruff shampoo that apparently makes them play better.

Trump's photo call with the bible, described as 'tone deaf' by others. I think it was Joe Biden who said it would be helpful if he opened it now and again.

We now have mass street parties going on here. I just don't get these people. It comes across as mass disobedience, the trouble is they are playing fast and loose with other peoples' lives.

Apparently, we have no figures on how many people have been contacted under the trace and track system. I might be cynical, but I suspect the figure is zero. The tracers are too busy watching Netflix.

Roundtuit  
#366 Posted : 04 June 2020 20:26:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Okay it is official Covid-19 is now the "Hokey-Kokey" virus - in / out, in /out, you shake it all about

Initially there were concerns over the non-steroidal anti-inflamatory Ibuprofen contributing then its sulphate derivative (so not the stuff at the chemist) is being researched to aleviate symptoms and now a "brand" has just presented an "official" advert stating it can be used in the same manner as paracetemol to treat fever.

Research or litigation threat? 

Roundtuit  
#367 Posted : 04 June 2020 20:26:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Okay it is official Covid-19 is now the "Hokey-Kokey" virus - in / out, in /out, you shake it all about

Initially there were concerns over the non-steroidal anti-inflamatory Ibuprofen contributing then its sulphate derivative (so not the stuff at the chemist) is being researched to aleviate symptoms and now a "brand" has just presented an "official" advert stating it can be used in the same manner as paracetemol to treat fever.

Research or litigation threat? 

Mark-W  
#368 Posted : 05 June 2020 09:35:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mark-W

Originally Posted by: stevedm Go to Quoted Post

...that this is what you all forget...the NHS staff have to abide by thier professional standards not one of a politicians whim...hence the stress and pressure put on as we ensure the patients and families of patients have thier rights protected...becuase that what we do...

That to me is a little bit laughable. I have several members of family who work in the NHS, 1 an A&E nurse. She posted some pics on social media the other day and it was a pic of her and her best friend shoulder to shoulder at some lake. When someone pointed out that she wasn't social distancing, her response, we don't social distance in the staffroom or changing rooms at work or wear PPE in those areas so why should I do it when outside.

So if our nursing staff aren't playing by the rules when out of sight there isn't much hope. But ten her parents live in the next street and the wife also works in the NHS, but throughout the lockdown they've been in and out of each others houses almost daily, family BBQ's etc etc. 

It makes my blood boil, I've been as good as I can, only going out to visit 1 client where remote working isn't possible but other than that not been anywhere. I wonder who has the correct approach?

Mark-W  
#369 Posted : 05 June 2020 09:45:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mark-W

Originally Posted by: biker1 Go to Quoted Post

 During the cold war, standard advice in case of nuclear attack was to get under the dining room table. This was hardly credible at the time, and just sounds completely ludicrous now. It came across as needing to tell the public something to make them feel in control and better, however ridiculous it might be.

A lot of the getting under the table was not due to protecting yourself from the blast, as theres not a lot you can do about that, with either the main blast or return blast. But it was more to protect yourself from debris flying around or radioactive dust landing on you. But to be fair, if a nuclear device went off, I don't think I'd want to survive, I think lockdown would be a bit stricter than what we have seen recently

stevedm  
#370 Posted : 05 June 2020 09:50:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Originally Posted by: Mark-W Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: stevedm Go to Quoted Post

...that this is what you all forget...the NHS staff have to abide by thier professional standards not one of a politicians whim...hence the stress and pressure put on as we ensure the patients and families of patients have thier rights protected...becuase that what we do...

That to me is a little bit laughable. I have several members of family who work in the NHS, 1 an A&E nurse. She posted some pics on social media the other day and it was a pic of her and her best friend shoulder to shoulder at some lake. When someone pointed out that she wasn't social distancing, her response, we don't social distance in the staffroom or changing rooms at work or wear PPE in those areas so why should I do it when outside.

So if our nursing staff aren't playing by the rules when out of sight there isn't much hope. But ten her parents live in the next street and the wife also works in the NHS, but throughout the lockdown they've been in and out of each others houses almost daily, family BBQ's etc etc. 

It makes my blood boil, I've been as good as I can, only going out to visit 1 client where remote working isn't possible but other than that not been anywhere. I wonder who has the correct approach?

I can't comment on all staff but if she was mine...she would be sacked...or at the very least suspended pending professional ethics.  So laughable or not some of us take our professional registration seriously...thanks for another post on here putting down NHS staff/ frontline medical staff...well done..
Mark-W  
#371 Posted : 05 June 2020 09:58:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mark-W

It wasn't meant as a put down, but more about the fact that some staff only abide by the rules when in the public view. I have every respect for the NHS, I've needed them twice in my life, both blue light trips. Service I received was superb, it's just cases like this taint my view a bit

biker1  
#372 Posted : 05 June 2020 10:04:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Originally Posted by: Mark-W Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: biker1 Go to Quoted Post

 During the cold war, standard advice in case of nuclear attack was to get under the dining room table. This was hardly credible at the time, and just sounds completely ludicrous now. It came across as needing to tell the public something to make them feel in control and better, however ridiculous it might be.

A lot of the getting under the table was not due to protecting yourself from the blast, as theres not a lot you can do about that, with either the main blast or return blast. But it was more to protect yourself from debris flying around or radioactive dust landing on you. But to be fair, if a nuclear device went off, I don't think I'd want to survive, I think lockdown would be a bit stricter than what we have seen recently

Perhaps the modern Ikea tables that so many people are queuing for don't incinerate with everything else.

I had a teeshirt in my younger days that said 'In case of nuclear attack, bend over, head between legs, kiss your *rse goodbye'

Mark-W  
#373 Posted : 05 June 2020 10:33:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mark-W

So you're comparing ikea furniture to cockroaches??? LOL

I can remember doing NBC drills as a young soldier, not a nice experience in full kit and respirator. There was a training building in Germany, can't remember exactly where but it was used to train for this. It had the light and sound effects and dropped dust/mist on you. So when you conducted your drills incorrectly they could see. A bit like the teeth staining tablets you use to get at school to show the pl;aque still on your teeth

biker1  
#374 Posted : 08 June 2020 12:05:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Well, cockroaches with funny names anyway.

biker1  
#375 Posted : 08 June 2020 13:55:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Read with interest that from the 15th, anyone using public transport will be required to wear a face covering. Shouldn't this have been brought in weeks ago, when the London Underground was overcrowded? Stable door and horse come to mind. All staff and visitors to hospitals will also have to wear one, which did surprise me, firstly that this wasn't already the case, and secondly that any visitors are allowed in.

RVThompson  
#376 Posted : 08 June 2020 14:00:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
RVThompson

Regarding the Tube, I can only go by the stories in the dailies, but if they were as packed as described, and many did not wear face masks, why has London not had a second peak?

biker1  
#377 Posted : 08 June 2020 14:04:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

It's probably what gave rise to the first wave. Probably avoided a second wave because of the waste paper bins, cut off water coolers and ski masks that some of them were wearing.

Kate  
#378 Posted : 08 June 2020 15:03:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I have been on the London tube a couple of times in the last few weeks and encountered very few people - we typically had a carriage to ourselves and there was perhaps one other passenger on the platform.  Admittedly this was in the off-peak.  I can't comment on peak time travel as I deliberately avoided it.   The buses however had quite high usage, about a dozen people on a bus.

Of course, it's only the more impressive photos and the ones that suit the agenda being promoted  that get published.

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A Kurdziel on 09/06/2020(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#379 Posted : 09 June 2020 09:43:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Been taking the train into work recently a couple of times a week- I live 30 miles from my workplace. My experience is similar to Kate’s: very few passengers and I often travel alone in the carriage and that is during the “rush hour”. Only about a quarter of the seats are available at anyone time.

The railways seem to be planning for a bigger return to work. They have hired a lot of “wranglers” to enforce a one way system at Leeds station, which is the local hub. I wanted to change one platform across but despite there being nobody else about was made to walk all the way around the station to get to the platform I want-missed my train and the person given me “guidance” was quite aggressive and did not social distance.  Lockdown seems to be a time for the jobsworths to emerge.

See how it works when everybody is back at work. To quote the Kaiser Chiefs(Leeds band who used to play at the Rocket under the station )- I predict a riot!

thanks 2 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
Kate on 09/06/2020(UTC), RVThompson on 09/06/2020(UTC)
RVThompson  
#380 Posted : 09 June 2020 11:02:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
RVThompson

Give a jobsworth power and they will abuse it.

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A Kurdziel on 19/06/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#381 Posted : 12 June 2020 18:30:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

From the Potus who said people should be free to protest lockdown (despite a pandemic) comes a requirement any of his supporters sign a waiver absolving him of any fault should they catch Covid-19 whilst attending his political rally in Tulsa https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-campaign-requiring-people-to-sign-coronavirus-waiver-tulsa-rally-2020-6?r=US&IR=T . If Covid-19 is "Fake News"why would he need a "waiver"?

Roundtuit  
#382 Posted : 12 June 2020 18:30:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

From the Potus who said people should be free to protest lockdown (despite a pandemic) comes a requirement any of his supporters sign a waiver absolving him of any fault should they catch Covid-19 whilst attending his political rally in Tulsa https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-campaign-requiring-people-to-sign-coronavirus-waiver-tulsa-rally-2020-6?r=US&IR=T . If Covid-19 is "Fake News"why would he need a "waiver"?

John Murray  
#383 Posted : 13 June 2020 07:18:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

Originally Posted by: RVThompson Go to Quoted Post

Regarding the Tube, I can only go by the stories in the dailies, but if they were as packed as described, and many did not wear face masks, why has London not had a second peak?

They're not packed.....and while 20+ London hospitals have not had a CV19 fatality for a few days, they expect more to happen soon. Treatment has improved considerably too, with convalescent plasma being used in many patients.

biker1  
#384 Posted : 15 June 2020 08:18:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

With what's been going on recently, I don't see how we'll avoid a second wave.

Illegal raves in places, one billed as the 'quarantine rave'. Streuth. At another one, one guy dead from an overdose, three stabbed and a girl raped. Sounds like a fun night out! I despair at the behaviour of so many young people. Don't tell me how badly the 'lockdown' has affected their mental health, I don't want to hear it. They're pathetic.

Thousands huddled together for demonstrations. Black lives matter? Apparently no-one's does.

Roundtuit  
#385 Posted : 15 June 2020 22:46:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

FDA withdraws emergency. approval of Trump anti-malarial as a Covid-19 treatment. NSS.
Roundtuit  
#386 Posted : 15 June 2020 22:46:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

FDA withdraws emergency. approval of Trump anti-malarial as a Covid-19 treatment. NSS.
stevedm  
#387 Posted : 16 June 2020 08:58:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

the FDA has withdrawn it but not sure it was Trump related, he may have banged on about it in the news but it was a health advice not goverment decree...not defending the guy at all as I call him Bi-Polar President...they also have issued warnings about combined use drugs that were also approved for use from US national stockpiles...not sure where you are getting you news from but maybe in this instance the FDA woiuld be a good place to look :)

https://www.fda.gov/media/138945/download

Roundtuit  
#388 Posted : 16 June 2020 09:36:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53054476

I would have presumed BBC News to be a suitable source for a one line entry on a blog

Roundtuit  
#389 Posted : 16 June 2020 09:36:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53054476

I would have presumed BBC News to be a suitable source for a one line entry on a blog

Mark-W  
#390 Posted : 16 June 2020 09:56:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mark-W

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53054476

I would have presumed BBC News to be a suitable source for a one line entry on a blog

Not sure I'd trust 100% anything I read that is produced by the BBC. Currently not getting the best press about impatiality and being accurate with what they write and speak.

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biker1  
#391 Posted : 16 June 2020 12:10:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

I presume this is a reference to the oxy-chloroquine drug that Trump swears by, despite a lack of evidence of it's usefulness and warnings about it's use. I'm surprised he hasn't tried bleach, as he obviously knows better than the scientists, but he probably doesn't want to risk his suntan.

CptBeaky  
#392 Posted : 17 June 2020 07:26:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

Because I am in to conspiracy theories (debunking them, not believing them) I know the source of his bleach comments. There is a a church (Genesis II church of health and healing) that sells a compound that you mix with an acid to create a bleach. This is then consumed as a cure-all for cancer, autism etc. It has a "scientific" study to back up that it cures malaria, that basically used Africans illegally as test subjects and then fudged the results to make it look like it worked. This was even given to children.

It has been claimed that it draws out parasites that cure autism, as seen in the stool of the autistic children that are force fed this bleach by desperate parents. The parasitic worms are in fact intestinal lining. At least one person's death has been directly attributed to MMS (mineral miracle solution (used to be mineral miracle supplement but then the FDA got involved)).

Trump had a meeting with the Arch-Bishop of this "church" about a week before making the comments.

It is amazing how often Trump doesn't follow his own advice though. He claims the safest weapon against guns is more guns, and yet guns are banned at his rallies, I wonder why that is? Surely if you let the whole crowd have guns he would be much safer.....

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biker1 on 18/06/2020(UTC)
Heather Collins  
#393 Posted : 17 June 2020 13:31:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Heather Collins

Anyone else getting really P'd off with being told in the daily Govt update email in vague terms that a 33 page Govt Guidance document has changed (on a Sunday - this was the Shops one last weekend), but then having to read the entire bloody thing alongside the last version to be sure what had actually changed?  I have tried emailing them to explain how document control should actually work, but I fear it only shows me up to be a former Quality Systems Manager and won't have any actual effect.

If anyone else is involved in trying to decide how long to quarantine clothing for after customers have smeared it with Covid19, do please share!

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A Kurdziel on 17/06/2020(UTC), Kate on 18/06/2020(UTC)
chris42  
#394 Posted : 18 June 2020 09:37:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: Heather Collins Go to Quoted Post

If anyone else is involved in trying to decide how long to quarantine clothing for after customers have smeared it with Covid19, do please share!

I’m not in this industry, but on the news a shop owner stated they would quarantine the clothing for the next 24 hours before it going back onto the shelves. Possibly they mean the following day. Which makes some sense as you don’t want to be trying to restock shelves with the great British public in the way (as they are idiots and can’t follow simple arrows).

Post 29 of this thread indicates it generally lasts 3 hours on fabric., as I asked how long it would last on different surfaces. I think Nic said it came from NHS web site.

Don’t know if this is helpful, but as no one else have put anything forward.

Chris

russman  
#395 Posted : 18 June 2020 09:57:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
russman

Hi all,

I work in Height Safety with Catagory 3 PPE (harnesses, ropes and lanyards) and we contacted the manufactures with regards to a quarantine period when swapping items of equipment that were difficult to clean. We were informed that 72 hours would be a sufficient period before somebody else could use the equipment safely. 

I dont know if it will be a similar timeline for other textile items.

Russ

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Kate on 18/06/2020(UTC), nic168 on 19/06/2020(UTC)
Kate  
#396 Posted : 18 June 2020 10:00:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

72 hours is widely quoted for hard surfaces and it seems there is great uncertainty about the period on other kinds of material.

RVThompson  
#397 Posted : 18 June 2020 10:57:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
RVThompson

Is it possible the clothing could be steam-cleaned after each customer?

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200221-sitrep-32-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=4802d089_2

The information above suggests temperatures above 70 Celsius will denature the virus.

stevedm  
#398 Posted : 18 June 2020 11:22:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(20)30003-3/fulltext#sec1

It is about the heat...the virus lasts 2-3 days in cloth without cleaning...we have been using disposable suit/aprons and increased the rotation of our frontline uniforms...the problem is that on metal surfaces it lasts 3-7 days so unlike Ebola where we throw everything away ...the machines have been dedicated to the washing of these uniforms...cleaning costs are my next highest budget expense next to labour...but luckily I don't have a problem getting approval for more  :)

biker1  
#399 Posted : 18 June 2020 11:44:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Originally Posted by: CptBeaky Go to Quoted Post

Because I am in to conspiracy theories (debunking them, not believing them) I know the source of his bleach comments. There is a a church (Genesis II church of health and healing) that sells a compound that you mix with an acid to create a bleach. This is then consumed as a cure-all for cancer, autism etc. It has a "scientific" study to back up that it cures malaria, that basically used Africans illegally as test subjects and then fudged the results to make it look like it worked. This was even given to children.

It has been claimed that it draws out parasites that cure autism, as seen in the stool of the autistic children that are force fed this bleach by desperate parents. The parasitic worms are in fact intestinal lining. At least one person's death has been directly attributed to MMS (mineral miracle solution (used to be mineral miracle supplement but then the FDA got involved)).

Trump had a meeting with the Arch-Bishop of this "church" about a week before making the comments.

It is amazing how often Trump doesn't follow his own advice though. He claims the safest weapon against guns is more guns, and yet guns are banned at his rallies, I wonder why that is? Surely if you let the whole crowd have guns he would be much safer.....

I have also seen reference to the possible source of Trump's consideration of the use of bleach. Too much of a coincidence that he was talking to the guy from this 'church'. Latest news seems to be that various people are speculating as to whether he has some sort of neurological problem, but seeing the murky state of politics over there, we can never be sure that such speculation is not politically motivated.

If anyone tells him that intense radiation eliminates the virus, we're all doomed.

John Murray  
#400 Posted : 19 June 2020 09:48:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

Just emailed him that intense radiation destroys the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Glad to be of help.

biker1  
#401 Posted : 19 June 2020 09:53:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Originally Posted by: John Murray Go to Quoted Post

Just emailed him that intense radiation destroys the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Glad to be of help.

Oh no! I hope you also emailed his team to take the big red button off him immediately. If not, I'll follow previous government advice, and get under the dining room table (the one from Ikea, of course).
CptBeaky  
#402 Posted : 19 June 2020 09:56:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

I am of the opinion that the "big red button" is not connected to anything a the moment, and hasn't been for around 4 years....

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biker1 on 19/06/2020(UTC), Sam Ellacott on 24/06/2020(UTC)
biker1  
#403 Posted : 19 June 2020 10:10:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Well, I see that people have flocked to the clothes and sports shops as soon as they opened, like sheep. Horrendous queues. I don't understand it - surely the only clothing many of us need to replace are our pyjamas. I thought the lines of cars for McDonalds was bad enough - I've never wanted a Big Mac that badly, and can't ever imagine doing so. Mind you, it does suggest an idea for a birthday present - a gift card for Primark, together with a new umbrella for queuing in the rain.

The track and trace system (our 'world beating' system) continues to be a farce, with a U-turn on the app. Is this government capable of doing anything right?

CptBeaky  
#404 Posted : 19 June 2020 10:25:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

3 out 4 of the infectious diseases emerging into human society since 1900 have been tranmsitted from animals. The vast majority of which come from the appaling conditions these animals are kept in. I find it sickening that people flock to the very sort of of industry that is causing these diseases.

Let's not let the live trade of wildlife cloud the issue, swine fever was from a pig farm, avian flu came from a goose farm. 90% of livestock is factory farmed. It is widley believed that Spanish flu, which killed millions, came from chicken farms, although it may have been pigs. It is no coincidence that meat processing plants are some of the worse infected places during these pandemics. Factory farming and slaughter on this scale provide the ideal places for disease to thrive, spread and mutate.

Just a few others diseases that were/are spread by animals into humans. HIV, ebola, e-coli, MERS, SARS, CJD, measles

Vegan rant done for the day. (maybe)

biker1  
#405 Posted : 19 June 2020 10:43:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

I'm not vegan, but I do agree with what you say. Farm animals are kept in appalling conditions in many places. The rise of factory farming runs alongside the present day consumerism, where we are conditioned to expect food to be provided at the cheapest possible price, and the rise of supermarkets to compete against each other to fulfill this. Food producers are forced to cut costs and be as efficient as possible just to survive against the buying power of the supermarkets, and animal welfare is one of the first things to suffer. We don't seem to learn from past mistakes, so are doomed to repeat them.

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CptBeaky on 19/06/2020(UTC)
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