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stevedm  
#441 Posted : 06 July 2020 08:55:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

...also threw up some unexpected fun for us...45 drug and alcohol tests completed so far across the UK before 9am  !!...

biker1  
#442 Posted : 08 July 2020 11:48:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

That has to be a record. Some of the hairdressers/barbers opened at midnight - perhaps they went straight from there to the pub. I note that some pubs have had to close again following concerns over infected people visiting, which was always going to be a risk.

The UK and the USA do have something in common - we both have the wrong leader for the job at the moment (not that I thought Boris Johnson would have been the right leader for any situation).

I see Tom Hanks has joined the fracas, saying he doesn't understand anyone who refuses to use a mask, as it's the least they can do. As someone who has suffered and survived COVID, he is a credible person to say this.

Roundtuit  
#443 Posted : 08 July 2020 12:21:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Like many "preachers" Mr Hanks ignores those with severe anxiety issues having their faces covered so whips up the baying mob to berate people not wearing a covering despite legitimate mental health reasons.

Roundtuit  
#444 Posted : 08 July 2020 12:21:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Like many "preachers" Mr Hanks ignores those with severe anxiety issues having their faces covered so whips up the baying mob to berate people not wearing a covering despite legitimate mental health reasons.

A Kurdziel  
#445 Posted : 08 July 2020 12:37:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I don’t like face coverings; I think they are dehumanising. But the widespread use  them seems to be preventing the spread of airborne infections-remember they’re intended to stop you giving someone else the infection not  protecting you ie they are not RPE.

They do work: I normally have 2 or three colds a year and I have not had one since January: not to be sneezed at.

What we really need is proper government run system to tack and trace the infection so that we can get a real handle on it. We really still don’t know how many people have the infection, since we are not testing enough people. That becomes even more important if it is established that the virus can remain airborne and active for longer than thought see: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-53329946 for the latest from WHO.

If we get a grip on this we can target our controls more effectively rather than using a shot gun approach.

biker1  
#446 Posted : 08 July 2020 15:00:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Like many "preachers" Mr Hanks ignores those with severe anxiety issues having their faces covered so whips up the baying mob to berate people not wearing a covering despite legitimate mental health reasons.

Ah, I understand Donald Trump's problem now!

Edited by user 08 July 2020 15:03:35(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

John Murray  
#447 Posted : 09 July 2020 06:58:37(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

I don’t like face coverings; I think they are dehumanising. But the widespread use  them seems to be preventing the spread of airborne infections-remember they’re intended to stop you giving someone else the infection not  protecting you ie they are not RPE.

They do work: I normally have 2 or three colds a year and I have not had one since January: not to be sneezed at.

What we really need is proper government run system to tack and trace the infection so that we can get a real handle on it. We really still don’t know how many people have the infection, since we are not testing enough people. That becomes even more important if it is established that the virus can remain airborne and active for longer than thought see: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-53329946 for the latest from WHO.

If we get a grip on this we can target our controls more effectively rather than using a shot gun approach.

On current information it is looking likely that long-term immunity to sars-cov-2 is unlikely to be gained in the majority of people. Re-infection of recovered patients has already occurred in China.

biker1  
#448 Posted : 09 July 2020 14:57:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

I see that one pub has now banned young people from 8pm onwards, on the basis that they will not comply with social distancing etc. Another conclusion is that drunk people don't comply with requirements, which does raise the question of why then were the pubs allowed to reopen? It seems that this government shoots itself in the foot at every turn.

biker1  
#449 Posted : 09 July 2020 15:06:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

I saw with optimism that the government is providing a 50% discount to people for eating out, to try and support the hospitality trade. However, this will only be available Monday to Wednesday, and will be limited to ten pounds per person. Do you think they are perhaps a little out of touch with practicalities and costs?

peter gotch  
#450 Posted : 09 July 2020 15:15:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Biker, I also wondered about how this 50% off a meal of up to £10 per person on only three days per week for just a month is going to cost and administer (if they actually manage to do it).

Suspect that some civil servants groaned when this was announced.

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nic168 on 10/07/2020(UTC)
chris42  
#451 Posted : 09 July 2020 15:36:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: John Murray Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

What we really need is proper government 

On current information it is looking likely that long-term immunity to sars-cov-2 is unlikely to be gained in the majority of people. Re-infection of recovered patients has already occurred in China.

Is there any official information on this especially the re infection of recovered patients? I have a few people thinking they are now immune as they feel they have had it (not tested!) and so can do what they like. This is despite me saying there was no evidence of immunity. So, anything on an official site would be welcome.

Thanks

Chris

Security image  2Err

Jason90212992  
#452 Posted : 10 July 2020 07:45:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jason90212992

Forum Name: Jason90212992= Boon Chye Oh (Singapore)

The Covid-19 will not just disappear as the latest research examined the genetic structure of virus samples and noticed somehting different, i.e. mutation. We are worry it may be more contagious. 

Moving forward, we should avoid the risks, if possible else we have to combat with the risks by designing the workplace, safe distancing and reusable respiratory masks. While waiting for new control measures such as vaccine and test kits (swab test) to be readily available with affordable cost.

For interim measures, I will suggest research scientiest and engineers to design cost effective and resuable respiratory masks (i.e. PPE) for the workforce to continue their essential works.  We cannot afford to lockdown for too long as we need to be sustanable.    

thanks 2 users thanked Jason90212992 for this useful post.
biker1 on 10/07/2020(UTC), nic168 on 21/07/2020(UTC)
biker1  
#453 Posted : 10 July 2020 08:15:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

It seems we are still learning about the nature of the virus. In the early days, it was reported that four strains of the virus had been found; on the other hand the tendency of viruses to mutate had not had a major effect, since the virus was being quite successful as it was, so no need to mutate. Latest thinking from the WHO is that airborne transmission might be more of a factor than was first thought. It was acknowledged early on that the two metre social distancing was only a minimum to account for normal respiration and talking, but that coughs and sneezes could spread the virus up to eight metres, hence the need for face masks to prevent this happening. Some differences of opinion on social distancing, as the WHO have stuck with one metre separation, whereas most other bodies recommend two metres. I agree that practically, we need reusable face coverings to enable society to continue to function, but we also need to enforce the wearing of them in certain situations. A vaccine will hopefully be available soon, which should help, but we need to be aware that it will only protect against the dominant strain(s), as is the case with influenza, and it is therefore likely that the vaccine will need to be tailored to the dominant strains for any given time period. With the tendency of viruses to mutate, a once-and-for-all vaccine is unlikely to work long term.

biker1  
#454 Posted : 10 July 2020 09:33:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

The response of the NHS hospitals to the pandemic was magnificent, and hospital doctors and nurses rightly deserve praise, but this response came at a cost. Routine surgery, cancer treatment, specialist clinics and so on all went onto hold. To get a true picture of the mortality rate due to the virus, I think the number of people who have died from other causes because they couldn't get treatment for them due to the focus on COVID should be factored in. The suffering of lots of other people for the same reason should be taken into account. If not, we haven't learned the lessons from the pandemic. The response of GPs, who barricaded themselves in their surgeries and saw very few people, should also be reviewed.

One journalist said that we shouldn't let the wonderful response to COVID blind us to the problems with the NHS, which I fully agree with.

stevedm  
#455 Posted : 10 July 2020 10:41:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

...I have and am beginng to more and more recently, have little sympathy for those that didn't plan...we didn't (globally) learn any lessions from SARS Covid -1 and now SARS Covid- 2 has caused a pandemic...in recent years with all of the #tag communication we have lost a sense and feel of humanity, caring for your next door neighbour looking out for the person next to you no matter what colour, age or gender they may be...instead we stock pile toilet roll and bread so that then vulnerable in our society can't get it and then throw it away when we don't need it...maybe there is a plan and the story in 'The Day the Earth Stood Still' will come to fruition...  just going to climb back into my nuclear hardended bunker... they only let me out for an hour a day... :)

thanks 3 users thanked stevedm for this useful post.
biker1 on 10/07/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 10/07/2020(UTC), CptBeaky on 10/07/2020(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#456 Posted : 10 July 2020 11:38:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

We were supposed to have a plan for this. The Civil Contingencies Secretariat had identified 35 scenarios which they classified as national emergencies, one of which was an outbreak of a novel respiratory dieses starting in the Far East (probably a new flu strain). Well basically, apart for the type of virus, this what has happened. Plans were made but were put away and not updated. Assumptions were made such as rather than maintain a stockpile of PPE we can rely on a lean just in time supply chain, or that this virus s could be contained before it arrived in the UK. We had enough lab capacity to carry out the necessary testing.  Basically we could do all the right things without spending any money or doing any sort of assessment to see if the plans were robust enough.

I think some people a) don’t like to think about the “unthinkable” and b) prefer to be heroic and make things up as they go along.

 

CptBeaky  
#457 Posted : 10 July 2020 11:39:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

Totally agree, this pandemic has shaken my, already fragile, faith in humanity. Even now it appears that the everyone for themself attitude is rampart across all sections of society. Left or right are not immune. From the panic paying, to the riots and protests, to the complete disregard for their fellow humans when all popping to the beach. It isn't a "small minority" as we are told, 500,000 people hit bournemouth, that alone is nearly 1% of the country's population in one go.

I know I annoy people with the vegan thing, but even the complete lack of understanding of why we are getting hit with these pandemics annoys me. Instead the papers concentrate on the (frankly racist) view that it is those wierd foreign customs that caused this. We have already indentified another likely candidate for the next pandemic, and it is in factory farmed pigs.

Maybe instead of people getting angry about the small things we need to actually start focusing on the larger picture. Maybe we need to actually start making sacrifices to try to ensure that we have a future on this planet, rather than waiting for someone else to do it for us.

Friday rant out. It is home time for me now anyway...

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biker1 on 10/07/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#458 Posted : 10 July 2020 12:18:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

We are now back to "Save the Whales" although this time from the disposal of plastic masks.

Come to the conclusion that on-line media is driving society to have a goldfish like attention span rushing from one issue to another, never actually resolving anything and more critically never standing back to take time to see that bigger picture such is the imediacy in pavlovian response to the latest "ding" of  the in-box.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 27/07/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 27/07/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#459 Posted : 10 July 2020 12:18:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

We are now back to "Save the Whales" although this time from the disposal of plastic masks.

Come to the conclusion that on-line media is driving society to have a goldfish like attention span rushing from one issue to another, never actually resolving anything and more critically never standing back to take time to see that bigger picture such is the imediacy in pavlovian response to the latest "ding" of  the in-box.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 27/07/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 27/07/2020(UTC)
biker1  
#460 Posted : 10 July 2020 13:32:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

At a local level, there have been wonderful examples of community minded people helping others. The problem is when we go up a level, when politics, vested interests, mob mentality, secretive regimes and so on get in the way. Although not a vegan, I agree with a lot that CptBeaky says - the way we run our food systems in the name of consumerism almost guarantees that nature will come back to bite us. Too many people in charge frankly shouldn't be put in charge of a kindergarten, and I seriously question the value of politicians of all hues. Our systems of government are so ponderous and inefficient, at the mercies of people who don't have a clue. Planning is a foreign concept to most of them. We spend vast amounts of money on finding more efficient ways of killing each other, but when it comes to saving lives, the resources are scarce and we rely on charities to take up the slack. We have generated a culture of looking after number one, amusing ourselves with gambling and viewing murder and mayhem as entertainment. We live in an age of triviality, glued to smartphones talking or texting rubbish to each other, divorced from the real world, absorbed in social media, trending, and all the other trash that dominates so called advanced societies.

Considering the mess we have made of the world, and so many of our lives, I have to conclude that mankind has survived thus far more by luck than judgement.

Apologies for the rant, but it is Friday afternoon, and I am quite angry about current battles to get the medical profession to apply some common sense, and provide treatment that is needed. That's my excuse anyway.

thanks 3 users thanked biker1 for this useful post.
RVThompson on 10/07/2020(UTC), CptBeaky on 13/07/2020(UTC), nic168 on 21/07/2020(UTC)
John Murray  
#461 Posted : 11 July 2020 11:28:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

Originally Posted by: biker1 Go to Quoted Post

At a local level, there have been wonderful examples of community minded people helping others. The problem is when we go up a level, when politics, vested interests, mob mentality, secretive regimes and so on get in the way. Although not a vegan, I agree with a lot that CptBeaky says - the way we run our food systems in the name of consumerism almost guarantees that nature will come back to bite us. Too many people in charge frankly shouldn't be put in charge of a kindergarten, and I seriously question the value of politicians of all hues. Our systems of government are so ponderous and inefficient, at the mercies of people who don't have a clue. Planning is a foreign concept to most of them. We spend vast amounts of money on finding more efficient ways of killing each other, but when it comes to saving lives, the resources are scarce and we rely on charities to take up the slack. We have generated a culture of looking after number one, amusing ourselves with gambling and viewing murder and mayhem as entertainment. We live in an age of triviality, glued to smartphones talking or texting rubbish to each other, divorced from the real world, absorbed in social media, trending, and all the other trash that dominates so called advanced societies.

Considering the mess we have made of the world, and so many of our lives, I have to conclude that mankind has survived thus far more by luck than judgement.

Apologies for the rant, but it is Friday afternoon, and I am quite angry about current battles to get the medical profession to apply some common sense, and provide treatment that is needed. That's my excuse anyway.

You seem to consider it unintentional!

Do you really think that 600+ politicians have much of a future when 63 million people realise they are being conned?

So: Facebook/Twitter/Instagram/The_Sun/EtCetErA

biker1  
#462 Posted : 13 July 2020 11:26:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Originally Posted by: John Murray Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: biker1 Go to Quoted Post

At a local level, there have been wonderful examples of community minded people helping others. The problem is when we go up a level, when politics, vested interests, mob mentality, secretive regimes and so on get in the way. Although not a vegan, I agree with a lot that CptBeaky says - the way we run our food systems in the name of consumerism almost guarantees that nature will come back to bite us. Too many people in charge frankly shouldn't be put in charge of a kindergarten, and I seriously question the value of politicians of all hues. Our systems of government are so ponderous and inefficient, at the mercies of people who don't have a clue. Planning is a foreign concept to most of them. We spend vast amounts of money on finding more efficient ways of killing each other, but when it comes to saving lives, the resources are scarce and we rely on charities to take up the slack. We have generated a culture of looking after number one, amusing ourselves with gambling and viewing murder and mayhem as entertainment. We live in an age of triviality, glued to smartphones talking or texting rubbish to each other, divorced from the real world, absorbed in social media, trending, and all the other trash that dominates so called advanced societies.

Considering the mess we have made of the world, and so many of our lives, I have to conclude that mankind has survived thus far more by luck than judgement.

Apologies for the rant, but it is Friday afternoon, and I am quite angry about current battles to get the medical profession to apply some common sense, and provide treatment that is needed. That's my excuse anyway.

You seem to consider it unintentional!

Do you really think that 600+ politicians have much of a future when 63 million people realise they are being conned?

So: Facebook/Twitter/Instagram/The_Sun/EtCetErA

Not quite following you here. Do I consider what unintentional?

Agree with your comment about people being conned.

biker1  
#463 Posted : 13 July 2020 11:45:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Do you know, I think many of us will look back in fondness at the 'lockdown' (not the infections and deaths, obviously). The roads were quiet, even empty in many places, people were more friendly (probably just happy to see another human being), there was a feeling of community spirit, and the only downside was the restrictions in opportunities to enjoy the quietness.

Now, the roads are getting busier by the day, with the usual idiotic behaviour of some drivers, most shops are now open, even the ones we never really missed during 'lockdown'. There is a depressing feeling that things are just going to go back to 'normal', we will go back to how we did things, and learn very little from the pandemic, let alone put new systems and priorities in place. The recent mass protests, street parties, raves and crowded beaches demonstrate how quickly people forget real priorities, and focus on what they want to do, and screw everyone else. Really sad.

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RVThompson on 13/07/2020(UTC)
Kate  
#464 Posted : 13 July 2020 13:17:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I live near an airport, directly under the flight path, and yes I am already nostalgic for lockdown when there were either hardly any planes or some days an interesting variety of military aircraft.

I have also very much enjoyed working from home and am disappointed by my employer's negative attitude to the concept that anyone might want to continue not commuting.

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biker1 on 13/07/2020(UTC)
biker1  
#465 Posted : 15 July 2020 16:17:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Well, Boris Johnson and his cronies have done it again (although with Michael Gove as a dissenting voice, nice to see unity in approach!). Masks/face coverings to be compulsory in shops from the 24th July. I read a post that said requiring masks four months into a pandemic is like taking condoms to a baby shower. As usual, too little too late. What it has started is a furore amongst retailers, who are confused about why this is being brought in now rather than three months ago, at a time when they are trying to get back to normal, why it is inconsistent amongst types of business (doesn't apply to pubs and restaurants for instance, and no suggestion that it will apply to the offices that Boris is so keen we all return to), and who is going to enforce it. Retailers are fearing the worst about aggression from customers, the police are complaining that they can't enforce it and the derogatory 100 pound fines, and questions as to why it applies to customers but not staff in shops. So, the usual dithering and confused messages from our wonderful government. Michael Gove thinks we should just rely on the good sense of people (where has he been for the last four months?), but then promptly collects his lunch from a shop without a mask, so no good sense there either.

You couldn't make it up, could you?

Roundtuit  
#466 Posted : 15 July 2020 21:50:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

When is a shop not a shop? When it is a takeaway!

Even after some form of decision is made they still insist on baffeling us, or is it to save them having to wear something whilst just popping in to "Pret"? Sure I have read that for such establishments face coverings were required where they do not offer table service......hang on isn't that a takeaway.

As most of those setting policy have "had" Covid-19 is one of the symptoms of secondary infection confused thinking?

Roundtuit  
#467 Posted : 15 July 2020 21:50:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

When is a shop not a shop? When it is a takeaway!

Even after some form of decision is made they still insist on baffeling us, or is it to save them having to wear something whilst just popping in to "Pret"? Sure I have read that for such establishments face coverings were required where they do not offer table service......hang on isn't that a takeaway.

As most of those setting policy have "had" Covid-19 is one of the symptoms of secondary infection confused thinking?

Holliday42333  
#468 Posted : 16 July 2020 08:09:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Holliday42333

I am certainly no fan of how the Government has managed the pandemic, but there does appear to me to be some sense in having masks in shops but not bars or restuarants etc (assuming that you agree with the softly, softly approach of the Government; I don't).

Bars, pubs etc are 'supposed' to take names and contact details of patrons, thus facilitating Test and Trace for a local outbreak (in theory).  Shops and supermarkets do not do this therefore have face coverings as their additional control.

As with all controls, they get more onerous if people do not accept and follow the simpler controls.  I did the family "big shop" last night across 2 major supermarkets and over nearly 2hrs shopping I was the ONLY shopper wearing a face covering/mask.  If the population in gerneral followed the guidance then the control would not be required to be enacted in Law.  Simple.

Note: I'm not personally sure that the whole face fovering/mask thing is a valid and robust control, but its probably too late for anything else.

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CptBeaky on 16/07/2020(UTC)
CptBeaky  
#469 Posted : 16 July 2020 08:35:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

Also, to be fair, quite hard to eat and drink in a mask, which are integral to bars and restaurants.

I too went shopping, and only one other person in the supermarket was wearing a mask, and she was only covering her chin with it. People want to be protected, but don't seem to be willing to be part of the solution.

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biker1 on 17/07/2020(UTC)
biker1  
#470 Posted : 27 July 2020 10:07:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

This thread is too good to just fade away, and I know you have all missed my rants (!).

The police trying to break up hundreds of illegal raves in London, and getting attacked and injured for their efforts. Apart from the nuisance to residents, these thoughtless people pose a risk to the rest of society. Although I would not tar all young people with the same brush, I would observe that if a lot of the young people of today were around in the two world wars, this country would not have survived.

Faintly amusing that one of our ministers, Grant Shapps, has been caught out going on holiday to Spain and will now have to isolate for fourteen days on return. Seems like communication in the cabinet is just as bad as with the rest of the country. Mind you, if any of the ministers are out of action for two weeks, would anyone notice?

A Kurdziel  
#471 Posted : 27 July 2020 10:22:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I have had a another look at this thread, for the first time in few weeks and I must  disagree with Cpt Beaky’s comments about bars and restaurants being places where people go to eat and drink. That idea is so 29th century. Bars and restaurants are where you go to have your selfies. I quite often see people order a large meal only to have their picture taken with it and send it back uneaten. Even elaborate cocktails get the same treatment.

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CptBeaky on 30/07/2020(UTC)
peter gotch  
#472 Posted : 27 July 2020 10:24:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Biker, assuming that Mr Shapps doesn't manage to find a Dominic Cummings defence, we can rest assured that he and his family will be well catered for if in quarantine.

Most of those returning from Spain (many from places separated from the Spanish mainland by an ocean and with lower R numbers than in the UK) will not have such luxury.

Todai  
#473 Posted : 27 July 2020 10:36:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Todai

Originally Posted by: biker1 Go to Quoted Post

Well, Boris Johnson and his cronies have done it again (although with Michael Gove as a dissenting voice, nice to see unity in approach!). Masks/face coverings to be compulsory in shops from the 24th July. I read a post that said requiring masks four months into a pandemic is like taking condoms to a baby shower. As usual, too little too late. What it has started is a furore amongst retailers, who are confused about why this is being brought in now rather than three months ago, at a time when they are trying to get back to normal, why it is inconsistent amongst types of business (doesn't apply to pubs and restaurants for instance, and no suggestion that it will apply to the offices that Boris is so keen we all return to), and who is going to enforce it. Retailers are fearing the worst about aggression from customers, the police are complaining that they can't enforce it and the derogatory 100 pound fines, and questions as to why it applies to customers but not staff in shops. So, the usual dithering and confused messages from our wonderful government. Michael Gove thinks we should just rely on the good sense of people (where has he been for the last four months?), but then promptly collects his lunch from a shop without a mask, so no good sense there either.

You couldn't make it up, could you?

actually, it makes sense, because the months prior you should have been isolating and staying indoors, now with an increased interaction including those using public services as everyone is returning to work then it makes sense to add in a precaution to assist in reducing the spread. I agree, earlier would have been better but also there should not have been people out in about. except ofcourse the exemption to the rules that was given for the protests. 

Roundtuit  
#474 Posted : 27 July 2020 11:53:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

The "Cummings" is to travel from Spain to France or Germany that way he is not returning (directly) from Spain and subject to quarantine.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/tv/morning-travel-expert-slammed-irresponsible-18667982

Edited by user 27 July 2020 12:37:35(UTC)  | Reason: added link to news story

Roundtuit  
#475 Posted : 27 July 2020 11:53:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

The "Cummings" is to travel from Spain to France or Germany that way he is not returning (directly) from Spain and subject to quarantine.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/tv/morning-travel-expert-slammed-irresponsible-18667982

Edited by user 27 July 2020 12:37:35(UTC)  | Reason: added link to news story

biker1  
#476 Posted : 27 July 2020 14:35:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Originally Posted by: Todai Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: biker1 Go to Quoted Post

Well, Boris Johnson and his cronies have done it again (although with Michael Gove as a dissenting voice, nice to see unity in approach!). Masks/face coverings to be compulsory in shops from the 24th July. I read a post that said requiring masks four months into a pandemic is like taking condoms to a baby shower. As usual, too little too late. What it has started is a furore amongst retailers, who are confused about why this is being brought in now rather than three months ago, at a time when they are trying to get back to normal, why it is inconsistent amongst types of business (doesn't apply to pubs and restaurants for instance, and no suggestion that it will apply to the offices that Boris is so keen we all return to), and who is going to enforce it. Retailers are fearing the worst about aggression from customers, the police are complaining that they can't enforce it and the derogatory 100 pound fines, and questions as to why it applies to customers but not staff in shops. So, the usual dithering and confused messages from our wonderful government. Michael Gove thinks we should just rely on the good sense of people (where has he been for the last four months?), but then promptly collects his lunch from a shop without a mask, so no good sense there either.

You couldn't make it up, could you?

actually, it makes sense, because the months prior you should have been isolating and staying indoors, now with an increased interaction including those using public services as everyone is returning to work then it makes sense to add in a precaution to assist in reducing the spread. I agree, earlier would have been better but also there should not have been people out in about. except ofcourse the exemption to the rules that was given for the protests. 

I could accept this argument if the 'lockdown' was a total one, i.e. you cannot leave the house for any reason. However, it wasn't, and there were a number of acceptable reasons to do so, including essential shopping. During the height of the pandemic and during the 'lockdown' was surely the time to mandate face coverings, not four months later.
Todai  
#477 Posted : 28 July 2020 06:06:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Todai

Originally Posted by: biker1 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Todai Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: biker1 Go to Quoted Post

Well, Boris Johnson and his cronies have done it again (although with Michael Gove as a dissenting voice, nice to see unity in approach!). Masks/face coverings to be compulsory in shops from the 24th July. I read a post that said requiring masks four months into a pandemic is like taking condoms to a baby shower. As usual, too little too late. What it has started is a furore amongst retailers, who are confused about why this is being brought in now rather than three months ago, at a time when they are trying to get back to normal, why it is inconsistent amongst types of business (doesn't apply to pubs and restaurants for instance, and no suggestion that it will apply to the offices that Boris is so keen we all return to), and who is going to enforce it. Retailers are fearing the worst about aggression from customers, the police are complaining that they can't enforce it and the derogatory 100 pound fines, and questions as to why it applies to customers but not staff in shops. So, the usual dithering and confused messages from our wonderful government. Michael Gove thinks we should just rely on the good sense of people (where has he been for the last four months?), but then promptly collects his lunch from a shop without a mask, so no good sense there either.

You couldn't make it up, could you?

actually, it makes sense, because the months prior you should have been isolating and staying indoors, now with an increased interaction including those using public services as everyone is returning to work then it makes sense to add in a precaution to assist in reducing the spread. I agree, earlier would have been better but also there should not have been people out in about. except ofcourse the exemption to the rules that was given for the protests. 

I could accept this argument if the 'lockdown' was a total one, i.e. you cannot leave the house for any reason. However, it wasn't, and there were a number of acceptable reasons to do so, including essential shopping. During the height of the pandemic and during the 'lockdown' was surely the time to mandate face coverings, not four months later.

yep i agree, would've helped to bring it in earlier. However, people should only have been going out for essential therefore not everyday for most, so decreased risk of people interacting alongside social distancing. 

Now we are in a situations were you can go out for a jolly, whilst social distancing is in place in areas its harder to adhere to due to the increased number of people trafficking therefore to compensate the introudction of masks. 

Prior to this, there wasn't any clear evidence on masks either. however, the CDC also said it didn't transmit in humans so i guess we are all learning :) 

biker1  
#478 Posted : 28 July 2020 11:39:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

I might be cynical here (it has been known), but I can't help but suspect that the dithering about face coverings had more to do with the poor planning of our government and therefore the shortage of masks, than it did with shifting scientific advice. Some other countries instituted the need for masks in the early days of the pandemic, and saw good control over infections as a result. The advantage of face coverings would surely be obvious to most people; after all, they featured in past flu epidemics where the modes of transmission were similar. What the government is now trying to do is impose a requirement when large sections of the public have gone demob happy with lockdown easing, rather than creating a norm of using face coverings when the risk of infection was at its height. The huge number of illegal raves, street parties, mass protests and other congregations, where most people (mostly young) were neither social distancing nor using masks suggests that we have passed the point where a lot of people will accept such requirements. Too little, too late as usual.

biker1  
#479 Posted : 29 July 2020 11:57:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

A bit worrying about the tension that seems to exist with China, who are kicking off at the UK for a role in Hong Kong, and at the USA for, well, everything. They remind me of two drunks at the pub who have fallen out with each other, and are now spouting threats and bumping beer bellies. In view of the alleged source of COVID-19, I would have thought that the leaders in China would have kept their heads down, but they seem to have got a glimpse of power and are going for it. Trump has been, well, Trump, and has continued spouting lies and libel on social media and basically trashing everyone who doesn't agree with him, or offends his fragile ego.

A word of warning to others. In my town, the council has suspended disabled parking in the centre apparently to allow better social distancing, and infuriated lots of people. Keep an eye out for any signs your local council is thinking of instituting discriminatory measures like this.

A Kurdziel  
#480 Posted : 29 July 2020 12:14:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Well they had exercise a few years ago code named Cygnus to test the response to an outbreak of respiratory illness. It did not go well including a lack surge capacity in testing and a lack of strategic stockpiles   of things like PPE. See https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/board-paper-300317-item-10.pdf

So what did they (ie the government) do in response to this? Well as far as I can see nothing, which is why we are in the situation we are in right now.

Roundtuit  
#481 Posted : 02 August 2020 11:26:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Stop the world - I want to get off.

Nick Hancock thinks it is OK to publish legislation via Twitter

The health secretary declares GP appointments should be by Zoom meeting (hey Nick we don't all have broadband, a computer or the skills to use it).

An advisory body reckons hairdressers in visors are spreading the disease and should be wearing masks (pretty sure the face covering regulations do not state mask).

Now Boris is muting anyone over 50 has an individual "risk rating" and could be asked to stay at home.

Roundtuit  
#482 Posted : 02 August 2020 11:26:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Stop the world - I want to get off.

Nick Hancock thinks it is OK to publish legislation via Twitter

The health secretary declares GP appointments should be by Zoom meeting (hey Nick we don't all have broadband, a computer or the skills to use it).

An advisory body reckons hairdressers in visors are spreading the disease and should be wearing masks (pretty sure the face covering regulations do not state mask).

Now Boris is muting anyone over 50 has an individual "risk rating" and could be asked to stay at home.

Brian Hagyard  
#483 Posted : 03 August 2020 08:05:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Brian Hagyard

Yep Madness!

Found out at 10pm via facebook group that Here in Bradford we had gone back into a mini lockdown. Press rease made after midnight!

So now i cannot visit a friend in their garden - but its OK in a public park where they may be hundreds of other people - and im fine going into the office (which is not in the lock down zone) but then maybe not as im over 50!

How on earth does Boris expect us to give an individual risk rateing - some peoples underlying medical conditions we may know about - but what about those that we dont! If I go into work contract Covid and die - and it turns out i have a condition i was unawre of so not included in my assesment - can my family sue?

This just gets even more crazy with every day!

CptBeaky  
#484 Posted : 03 August 2020 10:08:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

Given that half our workforce is 50+ this would be a significant drain on my time!

If it does come into play, then I assume it will have a few caveats, such as :- All over 50s to have a personalised COVID-19 risk assessment, unless they own a ginger cat or went to the Isle of Wight festival in the 60s (but only if they didn't dance at said festival). 

thanks 2 users thanked CptBeaky for this useful post.
biker1 on 04/08/2020(UTC), nic168 on 04/08/2020(UTC)
biker1  
#485 Posted : 04 August 2020 09:08:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

During the height of the crisis, a journalist commented that we shouldn't let the wonderful work of the hospital doctors and nurses blind us to the problems in the NHS. Now those problems are becoming painfully evident once more. Just what have we got GPs for? They just seem to be there to dish out anti-biotics, and talk to patients over the phone. They don't seem to have any power or influence these days, or interest for that matter. Since they didn't see many patients, they relied on patients to provide their own information, clinical observations etc. We could get that from 111, so what have we got GPs for these days? Any problems - send people to A&E.

And mental health services are a complete shambles, have been for many years. My MP is going to bring this to the attention of the relevant minister, so I'm holding my breath on that one (not).

thanks 1 user thanked biker1 for this useful post.
CptBeaky on 04/08/2020(UTC)
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