Originally Posted by: arnoldisnumerouno

Originally Posted by: The Iron Chicken

Why did the WHO recently change its definition of herd immunity?How did life on earth managed to survive and flourish for millennia before vaccines? Was the development of the smallpox vaccinebased on observations ofthe natural immunity of milkmaids to cowpox?Is the information being altered to support the agenda?

Very interesting indeed.

Do you recall that the WHO also revised its definition of 'pandemic', back in 2009?

At the time WHO declared the H1N1 swine flu a pandemic, only 144 people worldwide had died from the infection. As Wolfgang Wodarg, then chair of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe’s Health Committee, explained: 

“The WHO had a definition of a pandemic, which it defined as a virus with high mortality and high morbidity. And in 2009 they suddenly dropped those two characteristics, saying nothing about severity or mortality.”

Tweaking their 'strategy' after a 'trial run' perhaps?

Iron Chicken, maybe instead of spamming the board up you could just go direct to the families of the 75,000 of the victims of COVID-19 here in the UK, and tell them that it is all a hoax. Go tell them that their grandparents, parents, children... whatever, are all secretly locked up in a building somewhere because the illuminati want to vaccinate the world, to reduce the population. (which seems wierd since the virus seems to be doing a good job of that already)

Whatever you do, please stop posting anti science on here.

We are H&S professionals. We rely on experts to keep us safe. When we call on an expert to examine something because we don't have any expertise in it ourself, we have to trust they are honest. If you don't trust experts, you have no place in the H&S profession. If you don't trust science, then go live in a mud hut and live off the land, because everything you have is the result of scientific study.

At what point, exactly, do you think doctors, biologists, virologists etc. are taken to one side during their training and told the "truth", and told to keep it a secret?

Ironically, even the authors of the "Great Barrington Declaration" see a place for vaccines to help curb      Covid-19.

Originally Posted by: John Murray

By the way, healthy persons under 50, and healthy children, are not going to be vaccinated. The lists start at 50.

Have you got a source for this John?  I only ask as I already know two healthy people under 50 who have had the vaccine.  Yes, they work in the NHS but not in critical roles (physiotherapist and GP back office admin).

Edited by user 04 January 2021 15:05:53(UTC)  | Reason: Terrible grammar correction

An intensive care doctor said recently that those who ignore COVID restrictions have blood on their hands. Couldn't have put it better myself.

Should the priveldge of a Passport be withdrawn from those "celebrities" who appear unable to stay at home?

Whilst I can understand your frustration over schools, as I have pointed out on a different topic, what is the option left for manufacturing/construction workers? These industries (along with infrastructure) have been told to remain open, and yet they are not to count as "critical workers". This leaves many (low paid) workers with no child care, or no income.

Just today I have written a letter for an employee asking that his school allow his children to attend as they are "essential to the provision of other key goods" and therefore can be classed as a "critical worker". I am aware that I am stretching the definition of "key goods", but he can't afford to take several weeks off, and we can't afford to lose members of staff for that amount of time, whilst still trying to run a business.

Throughout this pandemic the government has dispensed money like a broken ATM, but completely missed the target when it comes to money that would actually reduce the spread of COVID-19. If the government, for example, paid peoples wages when they have to isolate, then people would be more inclined to get the app, and isolate when required.

As always the manufacturing industry muddles on, whilst the service and care sectors get all the praise. I don't think people even consider how goods get to shelves anymore, it is all just magic. Without a manufacturing sector we would have nothing, no food, no medicine, no child labour clothes purchased online at such ridiculously low prices that it is cheaper to destroy returns than resell them, we wouldn't even have a pot to piddle in.

(been a while since my last rant, and at least this one wasn't animal abuse related)

As Paul Daniels used to put it, you'll like this, not a lot, but you'll like it. A member of my family has had to go into work because the NHS trust he works for has different rules for isolation than those that appear on the gov.uk website. If they can change the rules, what chance do the rest of us have?

I see that the GPs are now trying to curry favour with their patients by revolting against the government U-turn on the gap between the fist and second vaccination. Too little too late, I'm afraid, as the behaviour of our GP surgery has been frankly disgraceful throughout the pandemic. Paramedics and hospitals have been filling the gap caused by the GPs locking their doors to most of the public, and they are getting fed up with it. GPs have been knocking themselves off the pedestal we have put them on for years, and this has accelerated during the pandemic.

Originally Posted by: biker1

I see that the GPs are now trying to curry favour with their patients by revolting against the government U-turn on the gap between the fist and second vaccination. Too little too late, I'm afraid, as the behaviour of our GP surgery has been frankly disgraceful throughout the pandemic. Paramedics and hospitals have been filling the gap caused by the GPs locking their doors to most of the public, and they are getting fed up with it. GPs have been knocking themselves off the pedestal we have put them on for years, and this has accelerated during the pandemic.

The GPs' and staff are being vaccinated in list-2.

Maybe they'll be sufficiently immunised to vaccinate us by...........sometime in April? Not going to hold my breath.

If you have some of these symptoms: Headache/loss-or-change-of-taste/temperature/sore-throat/runny-nose/aches-and-pains................then don't waste time ringing them. After the 20-minute wait while you run through the various menus and get to talk to a minion, who filters the dross from the genuine article, you then get to talk to a nurse (who runs through the list above) you will then inevitably be told to have a CV19 test. Naturally, it isn't done there, so I was supposed to go to the tent-city set-up for tests.....if I didn't have CV-19 by the time I started to queue for the test, I would have by the time I got out. Sod all that. I'll just die in the warm.

I see that the World Health Organization has expressed concern about the UK Government policy of delaying the second injection as they do not feel the evidence that this is acceptable exists.

Originally Posted by: CptBeaky

Originally Posted by: chris.packham

I see that the World Health Organization has expressed concern about the UK Government policy of delaying the second injection as they do not feel the evidence that this is acceptable exists.

Get ready for another handbrake turn from Boris

Well it won't be the first by any means, from a government that doesn't really seem to know what it's doing. It seems to me that the only reason for delaying the second vaccination is a numbers game - you can cover more people with the first injection, and not based on clinical advice. After the abject failures of the track and trace system (who did the programming - Forrest Gump?), and the wishy washy tier system, and the token attempts at enforcement of restrictions, they are now pinnning their hopes on the vaccination programme. Their approach to this flies in the face of the results from clinical trials, but hey, who wants to listen to the scientists when we have brilliant government ministers?!

Originally Posted by: chris.packham

I see that the World Health Organization has expressed concern about the UK Government policy of delaying the second injection as they do not feel the evidence that this is acceptable exists.

Normally Sir Chris Whitty is very good in the press conferences, but on this subect he was his least convincing and most stuttery.

There is never going to be a clear cut decision on this without hindsigt though is there?

x of most vulnerable at 90% protection versus 2x at 70% (very round numbers).

If you want speed above all else 2x at 70% does look the better option.

Is it 70% effective as I heard this number on TV yesterday, but I could have sworn that the number after the first jab was 52% effective, being touted in November?

Also, on yesterday’s daytime news they were calling for volunteers to be trained to give the Jabs. The woman interviewed was not a Health professional, but undertaking the NHS training to be able to give the jab.

Let’s say it is ok for the jabs to be 12 weeks apart, if they wait the 12 weeks what will be the chances there will be a screw up and it ends up being longer (or never).

It’s a good job there is a lockdown as we would not want the Gov to try organise a social drinking event in a brewery.

Chris

In the good old days, GPs or practice nurses used to give vaccinations (last year the GPs rolled up to do the flu jabs), This year it's just practice nurses, and community nurses for the housebound. Some GPs have even asked community nurses to pop in to check patients, rather than get off their backsides and do it themselves. It's ok apparently for paramedics to go into peoples' homes and assess them close up, but not GPs. At our practice, a home visit from a GP is a distant fond memory.

The test and vaccination programmes do seem to be reasonably well organised (let's face it, they've had plenty of time to prepare), albeit a significant journey is often required, which could be difficult to those without their own transport (and who wants to use public transport at the present time?).

Originally Posted by: biker1

Paramedics and hospitals have been filling the gap caused by the GPs locking their doors to most of the public, and they are getting fed up with it.

... and the ambulance services are not able to keep up.

Earlier this week my elderly and rather frail father-in-law fell and broke his hip, and my wife called an ambulance at about 10am.  An ambulance got to him just after midnight.  We don't know how long he spent in the ambulance parked outside A&E, but we know it was hours. He still hadn't been X-rayed by 6pm the next day (then 32 hours after the fall).  You're supposed to be operated on within 36 hours in these cases and they hadn't even confirmed the break by then.

He has now been operated on, and apparently it went smoothly (but no-one has been able to visit).

That is absolutely appalling, achrn, hope he recovers ok from such an ordeal. Unfortunately, the ambulance service is being dumped on. They have long been used to substitute for the lack of out of hours GP services. In the current situation, they are now being used to substitute for a lack of face to face consultations with GPs, home visits by GPs, and even as a taxi service to hospital as GPs seem to automatically send a lot of people to hospital that they would normally have assessed themselves. The situation is ridiculous. Other health professionals, whether community/district nurses or hospital doctors and nurses, are carrying on dealing with patients. GPs, on the other hand, will only offer telephone consultations, if you are lucky enough to bag one. Patients are being asked to provide their own clinical observations, and GPs use their powers of ESP to make diagnoses over the phone.

There needs to be a reckoning when this pandemic is under control.

I have only read the BBC account of Professor Chris Whitty's interview this morning, but in my opinion this man needs listening to far more closely by far more people.

Plus those that claim to know better than Professor Whitty need to really back up their claim.

Don't worry Chris, I am sure Professor Whitty used alcohol rub rather than hand washing when he was working relief shifts as a physician on the covid wards of his hospital over christmas.

IMO he is communicating hand cleanlness by the most acceptable method for the mass of the population.  If he started promoting alcohol based sanitiser over hand washing he would have people baying for blood over who is going to pay and availability.  No on e can really argue against having to wash their hands more often.

This is different to not understanding the technical issues/benefits of both methods.

Edited by user 11 January 2021 15:20:18(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified