Originally Posted by: The Iron Chicken

Pointless graph copied from conspiracy website

..............and your point is?

So Chicken, having joined in 2009, your only posts have been regarding denial of the Covid-19 pandemic and response in some shape or form. Not a single post that I can find on Occupational Health & Safety.

You have constantly presented 'conclusions' that have either come from known consipracy information or misquoted from genuine research/data.

When robustly challenged over undefendable comments you dissapear for a few days, then start up as if the previous challenge never occured.

Yet, I can find no posting of yours where you actually suggest a solution or provide guidance.

You are providing no help whatsoever to anybody else on the forum, nor seeking guidance for yourself.  In fact you are doing nothing but spread missinformation and increading the negative mental burden of this catastrophic pandemic.

What is your motivation, because I for one can only see a desire to maliciously spread misery and discontent.

Using the same source as Iron Chicken in their contribution in the last post on page 32 of this thread...

Covid-19 Dashboard (talkigy.com)

It's perhaps the top two lines (other than the number of tests) that are most relevant.

With virtually no exception, these show excess mortality being substantially above the 5 year average for most of the last 12 months.

This will be due to multiple variables including those who have died after contracting Covid, those who have died from other reasons as healthcare services are stretched (or because people are reluctant to use them) and some who may have died from causes including e.g. suicide as a result of Covid restrictions.

But it is very difficult to conclude that simply doing away with restrictions would solve the excess mortality.

Oh dear, it appears that Grant Shapps is getting his information from the kind of websites frequented by Covid deniers.

He has told the Transport Select Committee this morning that the UK could not control its boarders in the same way as Australia etc as the UK needs to get goods and services in.

Obviously the Right Honerable gentleman is under the assumption that Australia is self sufficient and has stopped international freight, which is complete nonsense.  Not a single member of the committee challenged this  statement!

I know politicians lie to protect their position but even so [eyeroll]

Its clear that due to the differences of point of entry and more embeded free movement of goods that the application of such control would be more problemetic and less successful. To say that the problem is different as Australia does not have to import goods/services is just nonsense.

[Update] The PM is now spouting the same rhetoric in PMQ's

Edited by user 03 February 2021 12:40:53(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling etc in the absence of a spellchecker

CNN article 3 Feb 2021: WHO team heads to China bat lab at the center of coronavirus conspiracies

Note the involvement of Peter Daszak.

Peter Daszak is a member of the WHO team currently in Wuhan.

Quote from the article: “Daszak said he hoped his personal relationships with the lab leadership will mean they get everything they need.”

Daszak is also an intermediary for Gain of Function research grants from NIAID (Fauci) to Wuhan.

Why is Daszak on the WHO investigative team when there is an obvious conflict of interest?

Around 26m people in the UK have a pre-existing condition, over 1/3 of the population. Whilst most pre-existing conditions do not contribute to COVID-19 complications, they will still have it mentioned on the death certificate.

Pre-existing condition does not mean "Going to die soon". Nor does it mean "Should be allowed to die for the greater good". Whilst I am sure some people would love to join in a "Lock Them Up" chant, I don't see when people with pre-existing health conditions started to be seen with such contempt. Someone who has lived with HIV for 30 years shouldn't be sacrificed so that someone else can go to the pub.

CLEANING:

Increased exposure to chemicals = deterioration of health = increased need for medication = PROFITS FOR BIG PHARMA

Decreased exposure to natural pathogens = reduced natural immunity = deterioration of health = increased need for medication = PROFITS FOR BIG PHARMA

LOCKDOWN / RESTRICTIONS:

Closure of gyms and wellbeing services = deterioration of mental and physical health = increased need for medication = PROFITS FOR BIG PHARMA

Closure of small shops = increased use of big business = PROFITS FOR BIG BUSINESS

Loneliness and isolation = deterioration of mental health = increased demand for opiates = opiate addiction = PROFITS FOR BIG PHARMA

PROJECT FEAR / PROPAGANDA CAMPAIGN:

Fear and anxiety = deterioration of mental health = increased demand for opiates = opiate addiction = PROFITS FOR BIG PHARMA

Fear and anxiety = reduced immunity = deterioration of health = increased need for medication = PROFITS FOR BIG PHARMA

Fear and anxiety = increased uptake of vaccination = PROFITS FOR BIG PHARMA

FUTURE:

Lockdowns / restrictions = destruction of existing economic system = easier to implement ‘Build Back Better’ = PROFITS FOR VESTED INTERESTS

Seasonal vaccination for coronaviruses and possibly other = PROFITS FOR BIG PHARMA

Plant-based diet / restriction of meat and dairy consumption = poor health for many (veganism is not appropriate for everyone) = increased need for medication = PROFITS FOR BIG PHARMA

Automation of jobs = less people working = deterioration of mental and physical health = increased need for medication = PROFITS FOR BIG PHARMA

Mass and personal surveillance = increased control over the population = manipulation of thoughts, words and actions (see Chinese Social Credit System already in operation) = TECHNOCRATIC CONTROL

Smart Cities = population concentrated in defined areas so easy to surveil and control = TECHNOCRATIC CONTROL

Phase-out of private ownership = items and services are leased on a subscription basis = whoever provides it can also remove it = TECHNOCRATIC CONTROL

Welcome to the ‘new normal’ of technocratic authoritarian control, medical tyranny and eco-fascism.

Is that REALLY the future you want?

Originally Posted by: CptBeaky

Around 26m people in the UK have a pre-existing condition, over 1/3 of the population. Whilst most pre-existing conditions do not contribute to COVID-19 complications, they will still have it mentioned on the death certificate.

Pre-existing condition does not mean "Going to die soon". Nor does it mean "Should be allowed to die for the greater good". Whilst I am sure some people would love to join in a "Lock Them Up" chant, I don't see when people with pre-existing health conditions started to be seen with such contempt. Someone who has lived with HIV for 30 years shouldn't be sacrificed so that someone else can go to the pub.

So, to turn your first point around: a positive Covid test does not contribute to death from a pre-existing condition, but it will still be mentioned on the death certificate.

To turn your second point on its head: lockdown fanatics are chanting 'Lock Them Up' for healthy people - and also those people who are not 100% healthy, or are elderly, who do not want their lives restricted.

Each person should be allowed to make their own assessment of risk and protect themselves/others accordingly.

As the majority of us did up to March 2020 - got a cold/flu, sickness and diarrhoea, other infectious illnesses? Stay away from the vulnerable!

Not contempt, just common sense...

Originally Posted by: Alan Haynes

I never thought I would see the words " common sense" and "Iron Chicken" on the same post.

Probably misinterpreted or misrepresented

Originally Posted by: The Iron Chicken

I don't think anyone could argue that 'Covid19' death numbers have been, and continue to be, inflated due to use of the criteria 'deaths of any cause within XX days of a positive test.'

I do argue that, and in previous posts (#1251 & #1252) I linked to evidence that you are wrong. We know how many people died of COVID-19 and it is actually MORE than those that dies with 28 days of a positive test, not less. Yet another post you don't acknowledge, because you have no answer to it. You just continue with your false narative, despite being shown that it is wrong. This shows that you are not interested in the truth, you are only interested in your own confirmation bias

Originally Posted by: John Murray

Facts don’t matter Cpt. Truth is irrelevant. That the narrative is believable to the minimally-educated is all [that matters]. The Trump victory. Brexit. Etc. All won on the “ignore truth, believe me-I’m right” platform. Lies are the new truths.

Careful John Murray; the conspiracy theorists and Covid deniers are adamant it is they that are conveying the facts and the authorities that are providing a believable narrative to minimally educated people (like the majority of these Forums and elsewhere) who are taking it all in and allowing "them" to control us.

To be fair, I do think there is some truth in big business (be it Pharma, Tech, Media, Consumables etc) profiting and taking more and more control of the developed world and worryingly so.  However, where I differ from the conspiracy theorists is that it is the Covid conspiracy theorists themselves who are driving this with reference to the pandemic.  By refusing the controls, or encouraging, people to refuse the controls, they are helping to drive infection numbers that drive societal controls that Big Business can then use to its advantage.

If the enough people followed the (inconvenient but easy for most) principles of 'Hands, Face, Space' to its maximum achievable conclusion, infection rates would likely not be high enough for Big Business to take advantage of.  Again I refer to the Aus/NZ style model.

Remember Hydroxychloroquine?

HCQ was approved by the US Food and Drug Administration in 1955, has been used by hundreds of millions of people worldwide since then, is sold over the counter in many countries, and has a well-characterised safety profile.

2005 - Virology Journal: Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread

• “Chloroquine, a relatively safe, effective and cheap drug used for treating many human diseases… is effective in inhibiting the infection and spread of SARS CoV in cell culture… suggests a possible prophylactic and therapeutic use.”

June 2020: FDA revokes permission to treat COVID-19 with hydroxychloroquine

Jan 2021 - American Journal of Medicine: Pathophysiological Basis and Rationale for Early Outpatient Treatment of SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) Infection

• “The currently completed retrospective studies and randomized trials have generally shown… when started earlier in the hospital course, for progressively longer durations and in outpatients, antimalarials may reduce the progression of disease, prevent hospitalization, and are associated with reduced mortality.”

Why was permission to use HCQ revoked in June 2020 and doctors supporting HCQ use heavily censored?

Why, on 30 October 2020, did the AMA suddenly rescind its statement calling for physicians to stop prescribing hydroxychloroquine?

Considering that Trump was calling HCQ back in March 2020 ‘game-changing’, could the above be political in timing?

Does an existing, cheap, safe generic treatment make massive profits for Big Pharma? (Clue: no)

Does an existing, cheap, safe generic treatment avoid the immediate need for ‘emergency’ and ongoing vaccinations?

MOST importantly: if HCQ, a cheap generic treatment, had been in widespread use from the start of the ‘pandemic’ – as many physicians had started to do - how many lives would have been saved and how many hospitalisations avoided?

Does anyone know if HCQ is now approved for use as a treatment/prophylactic for Covid in the UK?

Originally Posted by: CptBeaky

We know how many people died with Covid-19 on their death certificate, but we also know how many had Covid-19 listed as the underlying cause of death on their death certificate, which was 73,444 in England and Wales in 2020. 

The underlying cause is defined as the disease or injury which initiated the train of events leading to death, and is determined by a medical professional or coroner.  We also know how many people died where Covid-19 was mentioned on the death certificate in any capacity, whether as the underlying cause of death or as a contributing factor.

This was 80,830 in 2020 in England and Wales. The difference leaves 7,386 people whose underlying cause of death was not Covid-19, but whose death was, in part, deemed to be caused by Covid-19. 

We also know how many people died in England and Wales in 2020 within 28 days (and within 60 days) of a positive Covid-19 test. This will include some people who tested positive but died of an unrelated condition. However, it also doesn’t capture anyone who died of Covid-19 but was not tested for it, which included many deaths at the beginning of the pandemic when testing was less common. 

The number of people who died in England and Wales in 2020 within 28 days of a positive test was 70,013 if you look at the date of death, and 67,611 if you look at the date the death was reported.

This shows that the deaths within 28 days of a positive test is actually lower, not higher than the number of deaths which doctors deemed Covid-19 to be the underlying cause.

Please note these figures are all based on year ending 2020, and do NOT include those that have died during January.

Just to repeat. These are the numbers of people that died of COVID-19 up to the end of 2020. These are the figures explaining why you are wrong. Unless you have figures to the counter you are basing your opinion on nothing more than speculation. I can do the maths if you find it hard. 70,013 reported to have died within 28 days, compared 73,444 that had COVID-19 put as the "underlying" cause of their death, 3,431 MORE!

Coroners are NOT putting COVID-19 as the cause of death just because someone tested positive within 28 days previously. These are two separate things. Your information is wrong

I already have refuted the DM article by showing the actual numbers, rather than an opinion. In each national lockdown the numbers continued to rise after the lockdown was annouced, for 2-3 weeks. The DM article was released on 6/11/20, however the cases peaked on 16/11/20 and deaths on 29/11/21, 10  and 23 days after the article was released. The DM is wrong, but surprisingly enough never recalled the article.

Originally Posted by: CptBeaky

And one last thing, before even I bow out of this "discussion"

Why would we need HCQ to treat a disease that doesn't exist, in this pandemic that isn't real, for a virus that isn't killing anyone?

At least decide what your narrative is....

So, no thoughts on the apparently political suppression of a cheap, effective treatment / prophylactic  then?

There appears to be a concerted attack on Tanzania because their government didn't comply, they realised what was going on and chose not to follow.

Yesterday's Guardian article "It's time for Africa to rein in Tanzania's anti-vaxxer president" was in a section sponsored by... The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation (BMGF).

Tanzania is currently on the UKGov 'Red List' of countries from which travel to the UK is banned.

WHO: Tanzania 509 confirmed cases and 21 deaths.

When BMGF, with a massive vested interest in Covid 'vaccination', sponsors a smear piece in the MSM, is it time to start questioning what kind of 'democracy' you're living in?

When your government tries to stop you from visiting other countries that don't go along with their narrative, is it time to start questioning what kind of 'democracy' you're living in?