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peter gotch  
#121 Posted : 04 April 2020 15:09:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

To add to Roundtuit's observation, apparently even if the item has been made in a Communist country for a US based multinational and to whatever US buyer pays the topmost dollar (even if their name says Spiv).

Edited by user 05 April 2020 11:00:45(UTC)  | Reason: Fixed typo

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Kim Hedges on 04/04/2020(UTC)
Kim Hedges  
#122 Posted : 04 April 2020 15:33:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

Personally speaking, I'm not a Doctor nor Epidemiologist.  So Covid-19 is a Biological agent, it has spread unchecked worldwide within 3 months, nowhere is 'safe'.  The observations that it is fairly stable (as in it is not mutating that fast) is still unclear, as allegedly the original strain has not been isolated or the Chinese State have not told us the truth! 

Saying that, it has mutated a little, as it has been reported that there may be 5 or 7 strains of the virus, which have allowed different levels of sickness and the virus has survived.

Now wearing a mask is pretty pointless for the average member of the public, because it is more than likely that everyone has already been infected.  If you are coughing and sneezing, it could be allergies or a cold or something else, maybe even a normal flu, it is not likely to be covid19 as the reported symptoms are different.

Common sense appears to have been completely side stepped and ignored, if the virus is everywhere in all places, wearing a mask will not make you or anyone else any safer, the virus is already in you and everybody else and probably on most surfaces and clothing, a bit like all those other bacteria that live on our world.  So if you are likely to sneeze or cough, use a tissue or the crook of your arm.  Wash your hands and face often.  Wash your clothing.  This is thought why Japan has such few deaths, cleanliness, hand washing.   

PPE only becomes mandatory when the loading of cases increases, such as places that do the tests, service patients in hospital, transport suspected cases, transport the dead, as the numbers of virus carriers increases, making the disease much more active, this is why medics, nurses and doctors are more likely to get it, if they do not have full PPE.  

It is still not confirmed as to why some people get it, some people get a milder infection and some people die.  Could it be linked to our own version of DNA - are we more susceptible to it or is it the loading of the virus, which is why clusters of cases is such a concern.  So a care home has already sick and vulnerable people in it, this virus seems to affect them more or so it seems.  This virus appears to be similar to TB (tuberculosis) it attacks the lungs, same symptoms, lots of phlegm and a labored sense of breathing.  

It has not been confirmed yet whether like TB, sputum (saliva) can contain the virus, the swabbing of the mouth and nose for testing, swabs the skin, but nothing has been said about the saliva.  There has been talk about coughing and sneezing, but the product of that is what – saliva?

So my next observation is why has the UK not done any disinfection of the country?

Roundtuit  
#123 Posted : 04 April 2020 19:28:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Which toxic and corrosive chemical would you propose we use to kill our water treatment plants, poison rivers and cause damage to ground waters? That is the ultimate effect of the widespread and wasteful dispersal of disinfectants in sufficient quantity and concentration to complete the task you envisage.
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Kim Hedges on 07/04/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 07/04/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#124 Posted : 04 April 2020 19:28:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Which toxic and corrosive chemical would you propose we use to kill our water treatment plants, poison rivers and cause damage to ground waters? That is the ultimate effect of the widespread and wasteful dispersal of disinfectants in sufficient quantity and concentration to complete the task you envisage.
thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Kim Hedges on 07/04/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 07/04/2020(UTC)
peter gotch  
#125 Posted : 05 April 2020 10:58:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

...with the added QQ of 

1. How soon would a sanitised nation soon become recontaminated?

2. What impact would this have on all the other species on the planet (including all the bacteria etc that we rely on for good health)?

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Kim Hedges on 07/04/2020(UTC)
Ian Bell2  
#126 Posted : 05 April 2020 11:28:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

There are certainly some odd ideas and comments throughout this post by the original starter. Not to mention simply repeating data we can all find via the media outlets.   

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Kim Hedges on 07/04/2020(UTC)
biker1  
#127 Posted : 06 April 2020 10:16:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

What we need to do is the avoidance of browsing, where people go into shop to look things, pick up um and then buy something they don’t really want. About half of the clothes bought in shops are only worn once or never worn at all.  People should know what they want, go in and buy it. Then get out.  This will mean the end of retail therapy which is a good thing and I will never again have to be asked “Does my bum look big in this”

As to DIY not being available; I can live with that!  

 

So, we go to the male version of shopping, where the focus is to know what you want, go in and get it, and get out as fast as you can.

Adding to the Trump folly files, he is encouraging citizens to wear masks, but he won't be wearing one, because he doesn't want to. So much for leading by example. He has also had a second test, 'just for curiosity' - isn't he the lucky one? At a time when they have carried out a pathetically small number of tests, this is surely adding insult to injury.

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Kim Hedges on 07/04/2020(UTC)
Marble  
#128 Posted : 07 April 2020 10:59:51(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Marble

Biker, I'm female but that's my idea of a good shopping trip too :-)

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biker1 on 07/04/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 07/04/2020(UTC)
biker1  
#129 Posted : 07 April 2020 16:00:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Quite worrying about Boris Johnson being in intensive care. Not a great fan of his, I have to say, but I wouldn't wish this on anyone.

Well, the Easter weekend approaching, and fine weather forecast. I'm dreading it, as a proportion of the population just don't seem to be listening to advice and instructions. Some people are still sunbathing in the parks and having barbecues on the beaches. What is wrong with these people? My eldest and her husband are both nurses, and still working, and I take it as an insult to them that there are still people around behaving like d***heads. Not only are they putting the rest of the population at risk, but specifically the police who have to try and control them.

Shut and lock the parks and bring in the army. It really is time to get tough with these idiots. If they carry on, we'll all end up completely confined to home for weeks, not to mention sacrificing the progress we've made so far on controlling the spread of the virus.

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Kim Hedges on 07/04/2020(UTC)
peter gotch  
#130 Posted : 07 April 2020 17:57:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Not quite sure exactly why, but the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had posted new guidance yesterday on the CDC website with a rather muted recommendation to use cloth face coverings when in public and when maintaining social distancing (6 feet in the US) is difficult, as a voluntary precaution. But CDC remain clear that proper PPE should be targeted towards those in high risk situations.

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Kim Hedges on 07/04/2020(UTC), aud on 09/04/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#131 Posted : 07 April 2020 21:37:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

If the professionals are demanding "adequate" PPE then Joe Public will obviously want something, psychologically they need something, so in the absence of adequate supply......

Whilst it is wrong to fratenise at this time the suggestion of shutting public spaces, invoking a total lock down, moving to a "police" state is IMHO an INSULT to the memory of all those who had long since given their lives for our current freedoms from tyrany and oppression.

Just for once lets have societal law serving society and the selfish (by high example the Scottish Health Advisor) getting their personal come uppance without any recourse to "personal" rights being an immediate guinea pig for any vaccine testing or sent to work as a porter on the wards WITHOUT PPE? Maybe that barbeuce will finally seem less inviting. The line form Gilbert & Sullivan's Mikado is quite apt "Let the punishment fit the crime" so break isolation and society will remove you from isolation.

BTW eventually we will have to be outside intermingling with each other, we will still be catching and transmitting Covid. we will still be seeing loved ones die. The only difference is that hopefully (after all that is the UK governments stated tactic to "delay" the spread) there will be enough equipment and specialist staff to serve eveyone who subsequently gets taken to hospital.

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Kim Hedges on 07/04/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 07/04/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#132 Posted : 07 April 2020 21:37:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

If the professionals are demanding "adequate" PPE then Joe Public will obviously want something, psychologically they need something, so in the absence of adequate supply......

Whilst it is wrong to fratenise at this time the suggestion of shutting public spaces, invoking a total lock down, moving to a "police" state is IMHO an INSULT to the memory of all those who had long since given their lives for our current freedoms from tyrany and oppression.

Just for once lets have societal law serving society and the selfish (by high example the Scottish Health Advisor) getting their personal come uppance without any recourse to "personal" rights being an immediate guinea pig for any vaccine testing or sent to work as a porter on the wards WITHOUT PPE? Maybe that barbeuce will finally seem less inviting. The line form Gilbert & Sullivan's Mikado is quite apt "Let the punishment fit the crime" so break isolation and society will remove you from isolation.

BTW eventually we will have to be outside intermingling with each other, we will still be catching and transmitting Covid. we will still be seeing loved ones die. The only difference is that hopefully (after all that is the UK governments stated tactic to "delay" the spread) there will be enough equipment and specialist staff to serve eveyone who subsequently gets taken to hospital.

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Kim Hedges on 07/04/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 07/04/2020(UTC)
Kim Hedges  
#133 Posted : 08 April 2020 00:22:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

Yes this post rambles a bit and I've mentioned a few odd things, but it's definately not as weird as President Trumps ramblings.  I used to think he could be a breath of fresh air for democracy in America, but so many of his fake facts and downright lies on nearly everything he says is just plain annoying , whilst he talks in the C19 US press briefings. 

I like statistics, especially when they are recent.  So the USA has lost 11,700 people so far and just yesterday lost 731 in New York alone.  Meanwhile, Britain which in theory should be a week plus ahead of the USA has lost 786 yesterday and 6159 in total.  Meaning, the USA should have started a lockdown 2 weeks ago and stopped the Spring Break from happening - which appears to have boosted the spread in America. 

As for the comment about tyranny and freedom and parks being closed - OK, good, close all the parks and stop this stupid notion that it is OK to go out for anything other than work or food.  You want to do exercise, do some push-ups in your bedroom.  

Everybody should be Ordered to stay at home.  No exceptions.  If your found abroad, without those 2 reasons, you should be arrested and jailed, no bail.  This is not normal times. 

Yes, I am just to the right of Atilla the Hun. 

  

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andrewcl on 01/05/2020(UTC)
biker1  
#134 Posted : 08 April 2020 10:20:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Two interesting perspectives from Roundtuit and Kim. I don't see restrictions on public gatherings, and parks and beaches are obvious places for this to apply, as an insult to those who fought for our freedom. Rather, such restrictions should be viewed as our own contribution to the fight for freedom, from death. It is worth remembering that there were significant restrictions on personal freedom during the second world war, when we were indeed fighting for freedom but required to make some personal sacrifices in the fight.

I wouldn't advocate a total lockdown that prevented people taking exercise outside, and in my experience recently people are observing good social distancing during this, but I fear that the actions of a minority of idiots might make that necessary.

Putting front line workers at risk, and indeed assaulting them as has happened recently, should be dealt with in the harshest way possible - such people don't deserve to be at liberty in a civilised society. Convert one of the empty conference centres into a mass jail, and herd them all in there - they are obviously not bothered about catching COVID, so there you go guys (I would suggest a remote Scottish island, but I don't see why we should inflict them on it). I do think we need to get the army involved - the police just don't have the resources thanks to successive cuts by our government.

Latest episode in the Trump folly files is an executive order giving them unfettered access to mining rights on the moon and other places in space, not to mention rolling back environmental protection in the USA. The arrogance and stupidity of the leadership knows no bounds.

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Kim Hedges on 08/04/2020(UTC), andrewcl on 01/05/2020(UTC)
Kim Hedges  
#135 Posted : 08 April 2020 14:33:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

Nice Biker1.  The trump follies continue to be a source of consternation to anybody who can think for themselves.  I cannot fathom the US Navy Department's head (and probably right up to the CinC), for removing that Carrier Captain, after the covid19 outbreak on his ship.  To me it sounded like he was not given any support by the Navy - which is why he ended up talking to the press. 

Meanwhile I saw an interview yesterday with Nancy Pelosi (Speaker of the House) speaking and the gulf between these senior government officials is scary and the lies continue.  From what has been said in the last week, the supplies of PPE put aside in warehouses and new stocks replenished under P. Bush and then           P. Obama, were not continued by P. Trump.  Added to the short sighted approach to this risk mitigation was that nobody thought to stockpile hospital beds and ward equipment, let alone respirators and ventilators. 

I have many American friends, whom I served with in Iraq and a couple from when I served in the British forces from 1976 to 1996, so yes I know a little bit about freedom and liberty.  

So the British Subjects (note Subjects not citizens) have been asked to STAY AT HOME, when not at work or getting food and medicine.  It's not that hard really.  

I am pleased to read the most recent update from the HSE regarding the reporting of covid19 amongst our brave workers everywhere, who continue to work despite the risks of contracting a life threatening disease and the weeks of terrible illness it can bring.  

More good news, I heard on the TV last night, that Bristol University working with a company, has found a possible vaccine for covid19, still very early days, but it's something positve in these dark days. 

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biker1 on 08/04/2020(UTC), andrewcl on 01/05/2020(UTC)
biker1  
#136 Posted : 08 April 2020 15:58:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Well, the USA is leading the world on at least two fronts - the incidence and deaths from COVID, and the rank stupidity of its president, who fires anyone who disagrees with him and appoints his idiot of a son in law to decide who gets protective equipment. Unfortunately, these two things are connected.

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Kim Hedges on 08/04/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#137 Posted : 08 April 2020 16:13:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

For an ex serviceman you seem to have forgotten that Cromwell and his New Model Army freed us from being subjects.

Indeed that burgundy EU format passport describes me as a British Citizen and before 31st January I was also termed a citizen of europe.

I believe for those not born in the UK they can apply for a British Citizenship https://www.gov.uk/life-in-the-uk-test so not to become a British subject.

Edited by user 08 April 2020 19:32:58(UTC)  | Reason: link to CITIZENSHIP test

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Roundtuit  
#138 Posted : 08 April 2020 16:13:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

For an ex serviceman you seem to have forgotten that Cromwell and his New Model Army freed us from being subjects.

Indeed that burgundy EU format passport describes me as a British Citizen and before 31st January I was also termed a citizen of europe.

I believe for those not born in the UK they can apply for a British Citizenship https://www.gov.uk/life-in-the-uk-test so not to become a British subject.

Edited by user 08 April 2020 19:32:58(UTC)  | Reason: link to CITIZENSHIP test

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Kim Hedges  
#139 Posted : 08 April 2020 20:43:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

Ah, Oliver Cromwell, a lovely man. 

I am terribly sorry, citizen Roundtuit, I hadn't noticed that before you said.

I grew up thinking I was a British Subject, maybe it was the influence of the EU, I don't know. 

I saw the news just after 5 today and was shocked to see 938 families effected, and these are the people we know about. 

How many other people, who are alone or living alone in isolated places around the country, that may have died and nobody knows?   

I came across this on facebook post, dated 28th March, from E.U. Scientists page. 

 https://www.facebook.com/scientistsforeu/videos/2801872196600349/UzpfSTEwMDAwMDY2MTA2NTkzNzozMjczODg4NjA1OTc2NDc2/

Edited by user 08 April 2020 22:06:47(UTC)  | Reason: additional link just discovered

Argyll  
#140 Posted : 09 April 2020 03:07:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Argyll

Here in Canada we have been on lockdown for a while now. It is indeed a surreal experience. As has been pointed out, the impact to human life and our respective/collective economies will be staggering. It was stated that there were 249 (?) coronovirus related deaths to date in the U.S. There are actually more that 14,000 deaths there as of April 8th.

Very, very difficult times for all of us. Please take care of yourselves and your families. We can all get through this, I truly hope.

Argyll        

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biker1 on 09/04/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 12/04/2020(UTC)
gamingzip  
#141 Posted : 09 April 2020 06:59:00(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
gamingzip

There have been a great deal of conversations on DSE appraisals for home laborers. I work for a lodging affiliation and we have to in any case give a fixes and crisis administration. I am feilding calls from agents day by day requesting that What Do and What PPE should I wear. 

I am investigating and composing RA's particularly for this circumstance. Any prompt welcome. 

Much obliged i want to show you something: 

gaming zip and more info is here: gaming kite
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Kim Hedges on 12/04/2020(UTC)
trebor123  
#142 Posted : 09 April 2020 08:37:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
trebor123

Yes it has been happening here on the south coast for the last few days..  many more people out and about BBQS started yesterday..  not good

People having visitors around

No Police

No PCSOs where have they gone - used to be out regularly on their mountain bike patrols

it appears that noone cares now and its a self self self attitude..  

Just annoying that noone cares - I bet if you look at it possibly only a 1/3 of the population actually doing anything if not less..  we need total lockdown to take any affect 

Originally Posted by: biker1 Go to Quoted Post

Quite worrying about Boris Johnson being in intensive care. Not a great fan of his, I have to say, but I wouldn't wish this on anyone.

Well, the Easter weekend approaching, and fine weather forecast. I'm dreading it, as a proportion of the population just don't seem to be listening to advice and instructions. Some people are still sunbathing in the parks and having barbecues on the beaches. What is wrong with these people? My eldest and her husband are both nurses, and still working, and I take it as an insult to them that there are still people around behaving like d***heads. Not only are they putting the rest of the population at risk, but specifically the police who have to try and control them.

Shut and lock the parks and bring in the army. It really is time to get tough with these idiots. If they carry on, we'll all end up completely confined to home for weeks, not to mention sacrificing the progress we've made so far on controlling the spread of the virus.

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Kim Hedges on 12/04/2020(UTC)
chris42  
#143 Posted : 09 April 2020 09:44:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

So, first time in two weeks I went to a proper supermarket yesterday. I went to the supermarket which is promoting the 2m distance and cleaning the trolly handle when entering, on tv. What a joke. Everyone separated well outside, but when entering one at a time you had already touched the trolly handle, you had to hold the same roll of cloth to pull off a bit as everyone before you. The hand sanitiser had run out (notice to say don’t use the one for the handle on your hands). Reported lack of sanitiser to employee in the self-bag area on way in. She just scowled at me, I had been polite.

There were arrows on floor which a large number of people just ignored, employees said nothing and even made it worse at some points (one was stood in the middle of isle on phone texting). One couple seemed determined to aimlessly walk around and right up next to you. Decided to stand aside for a while and let them move on. She was pregnant! There were a number of these people unwilling to wait their turn and snake around the shop. I was just enjoying being out of house so happy to comply. Even in car giving way to everyone (felt quite odd to drive again)

On way out, thought I would put on some of the hand sanitiser provided by entrance / exit before going back to car. Yes, you guessed it still no sanitiser.

Very disappointing

Chris

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Kim Hedges on 12/04/2020(UTC)
RVThompson  
#144 Posted : 09 April 2020 10:12:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
RVThompson

Possibly one reason why some countries are faring better is self-discipline among the general population, and the ability to follow strict, but simple guidelines, in the interests of the many.

Our society has, in my view, degenerated over the last 35 years or so, certainly good manners and being civil towards one another has become less prevalent.

Self-obsession and accompanying selfish behaviours are now common in daily life (well before COVID-19), and now we are seeing the unfortunate results.

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chris.packham  
#145 Posted : 09 April 2020 11:36:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

RVT - I have to agreee. But should we be surprised when, in the Thatcher years the philosophy was that there was no such thing as society. Take care of yourself first. Time, perhaps, for a change in the philosophy.

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RVThompson  
#146 Posted : 09 April 2020 11:56:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
RVThompson

I agree Chris, time for a change; I just hope we have that time available.

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Kim Hedges on 12/04/2020(UTC)
chris42  
#147 Posted : 09 April 2020 12:17:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Previously Chris Packham had advised to also moisturise after washing your hands so often. I bought some moisturising lotion, but it seems to irritate my skin ( It was a good one I think- starts with E then a number). Is there anything else I could use to help instead? Seems to be an issue with backs of hands especially knuckles are dried and sore.

Chris

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Kim Hedges on 12/04/2020(UTC)
RVThompson  
#148 Posted : 09 April 2020 13:06:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
RVThompson

I've been using a hand cream for a few weeks now, applying a minimal amount in the evening and my skin has improved.

It's in green packaging and the brand name is similar to the first name of a certain guitarist in The Rolling Stones with an 'O' in front of it.

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Kim Hedges on 12/04/2020(UTC), chris42 on 14/04/2020(UTC)
pdurkin  
#149 Posted : 10 April 2020 18:51:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pdurkin

Subject: Protection of Care staff, particularly those giving domiciliary care in vulnerable peoples homes?

 

 Please advise  do you agree with the current Gov. advice?

Current gov advice is:

"If neither the individual nor the care worker have symptoms of COVID-19 If neither the care worker nor the individual receiving care and support is symptomatic, then no personal protective equipment is required above and beyond normal good hygiene practices. General interventions may include increased cleaning activity and keeping property properly ventilated by opening windows whenever safe and appropriate. Care workers should follow advice on hand hygiene.

However,please bear in mind":

The intimate nature and close person to person contact between carer and client.

  1. How will the carer know if the client or any one else they have been in contact with is infected?
  2.  Under these circumstances is a reasonable duty of care being shown by the employer towards their staff, clients and the public by not wearing a simple but suitable respiratory mask, particularly where contact is closer the 2 metres.
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Kim Hedges on 12/04/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#150 Posted : 10 April 2020 20:14:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

pdurkin

Three measures - difficulty in breathing, elevated temperature, new and continuous cough - as you will not have access to timely testing then consider the former which if none are showing why the rush for PPE?

To be blunt to everyone MANKIND HAS HAD SIGNIFICANT COMMUNICABLE DISEASES SINCE THE DAWN OF TIME why are you now all of a sudden paying attention?

Social distancing and PPE DO NOT PREVENT INFECTION they merely slow the rate of infection progress through the population - to my mind only Howard Hughes managed to succesfully segregate from infections and that required a "small" personal fortune

Edited by user 10 April 2020 20:16:58(UTC)  | Reason: because we have no moderators

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Roundtuit  
#151 Posted : 10 April 2020 20:14:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

pdurkin

Three measures - difficulty in breathing, elevated temperature, new and continuous cough - as you will not have access to timely testing then consider the former which if none are showing why the rush for PPE?

To be blunt to everyone MANKIND HAS HAD SIGNIFICANT COMMUNICABLE DISEASES SINCE THE DAWN OF TIME why are you now all of a sudden paying attention?

Social distancing and PPE DO NOT PREVENT INFECTION they merely slow the rate of infection progress through the population - to my mind only Howard Hughes managed to succesfully segregate from infections and that required a "small" personal fortune

Edited by user 10 April 2020 20:16:58(UTC)  | Reason: because we have no moderators

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Kim Hedges  
#152 Posted : 12 April 2020 23:30:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

12/4/20 Easter Sunday. 

Happy Easter and my condolences to anyone who has lost someone.

In the Government press briefing today, some good news, the Prime Minister Boris Johnson has survived Covid19 with the help of the dedicated NHS staff.  The PM will now recuperate at Chequers in Buckinghamshire, but the bad news is the death toll has just past 10,000 deaths of covid19, but only those people tested in hospitals are tested.  Very little was answered regarding all those other people.  It has emerged that 19 NHS workers have died so far from the disease, many of whom may have contracted it because of a lack of suitable PPE due to the loading of virus where they work – and again this point was not stressed (I think) by the Press or explained by the Government briefing panel.    

It should be noted that this does not include all those many people who have not been tested but have died in hospices, care homes, private residential homes and the many prisons.  Nothing has been said about the armed forces barracks around the country either.  So this number maybe much greater, but because there is so little testing of the living and the dead – we simply don’t know. 

 

The World Health Organisation led with the call to arms back in January with Test, Test, Test, Isolate, Contact Trace, Test, and Test, and Test again.  The UK government has failed to do it back then and has since been lacking.  There is about 60 - 65 million people in the country, ‘we’ have tested less than half a million people.  Currently the testing takes 3 days and it is manual, there is no quick test yet, for all the talk.  

 

On a personal note here, I continue to be amazed at the dedication the medical professionals and care workers who continue to give aid to all those sick people.  I am equally appalled by the lack of suitable PPE that they use.  Many have now seen the minimalistic PPE being used from the different press briefings and the rolling news coverage, nobody has challenged the personal protective equipment being used, which to me, looks cheap and cheerful, but fairly useless considering the load bearing of the virus that the workers are forced to work in – and many senior professionals maybe aware of that.

Where are the full body protection suits, the full face respirators, the filtered forced air respirators? 

As for the Nightingale concept hospitals, the new field hospital wards will be germ factories, in my opinion, the vast open spaces will allow the virus to spread within, unless the wards are covered with PVC sheeting and wards are broken down into compartmentalized zones, otherwise less sick people could be put into greater jeopardy, with a higher load of the virus spreading across the wide open areas of the ward.  News from yesterday showed research about how the virus can spread between people, especially whilst walking, cycling and running.  The existing advice has been 2 metre spreading between people, but the report displays that fine droplets can be spread over an 8 to 15 metre pathway – the faster you travel.  Heavy droplets fall to the ground quickly, as expected, but finer droplets get carried further and can enter the slipstream of someone moving faster.  These droplets however small can stay active to infect somebody a week later.   

 

Other news today was for the concern of PTSD in healthcare workers and the exhausting shifts they work in, my only advice is to cut the shifts in half.  They are currently expected to run 12 hour shifts, they need to be cut to 6 hours, for those people working with the sick people directly.  Patients need turning every 16 hours to prevent bed sores and also to assist in breathing.  However, it takes 7 workers to turn one patient – because of all the tubes and connections each patient has whilst connected to a ventilator.  This is exhausting work.  Added to this is the emotional stress to the healthcare professionals of patients, friends and family members dying.  

 

 

I went shopping to my Tesco’s in Thornbury just north of Bristol, the staff there have laid out the store into a one way zone and have briefed their staff well it seems.  To start with, you queue in half the carpark, with cones and barrier tape, everybody spaced at 2 metres.  I can’t help but think to myself ‘shall I go BAAAAAAA’?   I approach the trolley park and a young lad sprays the handlebar with a disinfectant and wipes it with a paper towel, then pushes the trolley over to me – we are 2 metres apart.  I join the queue, it’s only 2 lines this time, I came earlier in the day and it was 4 and a bit lines long and thought sod it I’ll come back later.   The queue progresses.  Everyone has brought their phones, everyone studiously looks at their phones.  I get to the store entrance, there is a nice big sign explaining how Tesco’s wants you to behave and another worker who beams at me, I say ‘it’s ok, I’ve been here before’.  There are marking on the floor showing the route and 2 metre spacers.  I get my food and notice some empty shelf spaces too.  I notice the use by dates of some of the food, that’s not good, only a day to go.  So I don’t buy any meat.  I find some tissues finally, after 3 weeks and some toilet rolls too.  I’ve completed my shopping, I follow the arrows, then see a young woman with a blue lollipop the same size as her.  I ask why the lollipop and she says it’s to show people I’m here.  She has a radio mic and ear peace, she tells me ‘till 8’ is free now.  I thank her.  All the tills now have plastic screens erected around them, I suppose it will stop directs coughs splattering at them.  I pack my shopping and pay with a debit card.  All sales are now done with cards, no cash money transactions.  I leave, not bad I think, an hour, usually takes about 30 minutes tops.    

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andrewcl on 01/05/2020(UTC)
ricci  
#153 Posted : 13 April 2020 14:33:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ricci

The first case in Italy, Spain and UK occurred approx 72 days ago according to John Hopskins. In the UK the NHS which has about 4122 ICU beds has 2295 free or about 55% in Feburary it had 800 beds free or about 19%

More and more is becoming known about SARs CoV 2 and the hopes of a vaccine soon are increasing.

In Spain and Italy more businesses' are being allowed to open.

There are reports of large parties being held involving Young people. 

Future Learn from the Open University have a free course on line on COVID 19. It run by the School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine in London. I found it informative in allowing me to understand the virus and disease.

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Kim Hedges on 13/04/2020(UTC), aud on 14/04/2020(UTC)
biker1  
#154 Posted : 14 April 2020 13:55:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Well, Easter weekend over. Good to see most people complying with lockdown and the precautions put in place at supermarkets (Tesco leading the way on this). Absolutely infuriating to see the idiots disobeying the rules, sunbathing in parks, travelling considerable distances to visit the seaside or go fishing, the occasional peloton of cyclists, the idiot Strava site promoting long distance cycling challenges, large house parties, one of which needed two dozen police officers to break up.

Both my eldest and her husband are nurses, the son in law still working but the eldest having to isolate at our house due to testing positive for COVID at the weekend (which means my wife and I are at risk, and isolated for 14 days). And still there are plenty of selfish, stupid idiots who seem to think the lockdown doesn't apply to them (mostly young people, I notice). Perhaps they need to be arrested and shown around an ICU to see what their moronic behaviour causes. And yes, I too blame Maggie Thatcher for the selfish rot in our society. Surely the time to be explaining the rules to people has passed; it is now time to enforce them, and for that we need the army, as they have done in many other countries.

On the plus side, so many wonderful tales of generosity and community spirit. We just need to weed out the cretins and remove them from civilised society; I hear that there should be some spare room in prisons.

Trump continues to entertain. His behaviour would be hilarious if it weren't for the thousands of people who have died due to his egotism and incompetence.

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Kim Hedges on 14/04/2020(UTC)
Kim Hedges  
#155 Posted : 14 April 2020 22:09:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

I do wish our website had LIKE buttons similar to facebook. 

Nice comments biker1.  I heard today that Mr Trump had a row with the Press lasting 45 minutes, before the press briefing proper actually started!  I heard on the Radio Mr Trump slandering Mr Sanders and wondered how he can get away with it, nobody from the Press seems to challenge his slander (......Sleepy Sanders....). 

I mentioned a few days ago that I had wondered whether our own DNA could be a factor in why some people get covid19.  In a news report tonight, some other group of scientists have come to the same conclusion as a possible research area.  (Golly, I'm right about something for a change, it's not often).

nic168  
#156 Posted : 15 April 2020 07:17:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
nic168

Kim, where did you hear this? I came across something last week which suggested that Blood group may be a factor, but i cannot recall where this was.

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Kim Hedges on 15/04/2020(UTC)
biker1  
#157 Posted : 15 April 2020 08:29:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

I also came across something suggesting that blood group might be a factor, I think type A came out proportionately more likely, but I can't remember where I saw this. It has also been suggested that some ethnic groups are more susceptible. We seem to still be in the early days of understanding the factors around the effects of the virus. What does cause alarm is the media attention on the deaths, whilst statistically most people get fairly mild effects, but I guess that's what sells newspapers.

I think Trump is gradually losing it (whatever 'it' was in the first place), focusing on rubbishing the press and congratulating himself on how well he has managed it (not!), which must be an insult to the families of all those who have died. 'Absolute authority'? I think not, although it might be just too depressing to entertain that idea.

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Kim Hedges on 15/04/2020(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#158 Posted : 15 April 2020 08:41:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Things that I noted over the weekend:

Firstly, I think that people that people are picking too much on anglers who have gone out for a spot of fishing. Anglers are anti-social sods (moderators are all self-isolating!) which meant that when they heard that they were not allowed within 2 metres of other human beings, they were appalled since they usually don’t go within 5 m of anybody else (a barge pole length).  Two metres is intimacy for them.

The holier than though tendency has emerged again with people who have nothing to do other than whinge about other people going out in the sun and having good time. According to this lot we should all be at home waiting to die. Their last breadth will be to say “I told you so!”

Waiting for the moment when we really into the swing of lockdown. That will happen when you try to get are at the receiving end of some shoddy treatment and the excuse will be “it’s the lock down, you know”

I have just watched one of my favourite war films “The Cruel Sea” and Jack Hawkins is in a restaurant the service is rotten and the glass of water he is give is dirty. The waiter looks in the eye and says “it’s the war you know!” and Hawkins manages to convey the thought “that’s Bollox”, simply by raising his eyebrow-genius.

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Kim Hedges on 15/04/2020(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#159 Posted : 15 April 2020 09:13:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Less trivial I have just read this article on the BBC website- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52288573, where it has be revealed that the government is looking at trying to reuse disposable PPE. This is not a good place to be.

When the government passed the Civil Contingencies Act, it created a statutory duty on public bodies (ie the government in all of its forms) to prepare for any reasonably foreseeable crisis. The Contingencies Secretariat drew up about 35 such scenarios. These were things that they predicted might happen and needed to be planned for. They did not include the zombie apocalypse or a giant asteroid strike as the first was unlikely to happen and the second was so big that you can’t really plan for it. They did include the outbreak of novel respiratory infection that would most likely start in the Far East and become a global pandemic. The money was on a new flu strain but the measures to deal with it were essentially the same as Covid-19.  It was going to be expected that there was going to be a huge increased demand for PPE.

When I worked for Defra (Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs) we maintained stocks of PPE to deal with a Foot and Mouth outbreak and a rabies outbreak. During the foot and mouth outbreak in 2001 these emergency stocks acted as a buffer until new supplies could be ordered. Interestingly after the outbreak it was decided not to replace the stocks as this was contrary to the just in time, “lean” approach that the government was adopting at the time. It seems that nobody in the public health sector was/is responsible for maintaining such buffer stocks of PPE. Keeping things lean makes sense if you are a business, as business is all about making as much money possible for the least investment and (this is the  nature of capitalism) if it all falls apart you just wind up the business and invest in something else. Governments can’t do that, they need to spend money on thigs that they might never need. Warehouses full of kit might upset the bean counters but if we do learn any lesson from this, one will be that you can’t rely on the commercial companies to do everything, especially in a crisis.

 

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Kim Hedges on 15/04/2020(UTC), andrewcl on 01/05/2020(UTC)
Kim Hedges  
#160 Posted : 15 April 2020 14:07:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

Originally Posted by: nic168 Go to Quoted Post

Kim, where did you hear this? I came across something last week which suggested that Blood group may be a factor, but i cannot recall where this was.

I saw it again, last night on the BBC news channel.  Yes I have also seen the news regarding Blood, but only in relation to C19 survivors having blood taken from them and given to patients still in treatment, similar to a vaccine approach.  And again this was on the beeb.  I don't know the results, as it wasn't followed up. 

chris42  
#161 Posted : 15 April 2020 14:57:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Something like a face shield should be capable of being washed, and so should protectively gowns, have we just become lazy ( and cheap) with the throw away attitude. There would be no commercial advantage to producing a washable reusable RPE, so it has not been developed, but does not mean it could not be. After all companies have at short notice been able to gear up to produce ventilators.

The RPE being used is more normally used to filter particles, which understandably clog up a filter and would probably not be possible to clean for reuse. However, this is different, this RPE will not stop the virus as such, but does stop the spittle droplets, surly this could be done by a material which could be laundered. Are we really saying the technical ability to produce washable RPE does not exist, or at the very least a mask where a simple flat piece of filter material could be plipped in.

Chris

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Kate on 15/04/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 18/04/2020(UTC)
biker1  
#162 Posted : 15 April 2020 16:03:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

The holier than though tendency has emerged again with people who have nothing to do other than whinge about other people going out in the sun and having good time. According to this lot we should all be at home waiting to die. Their last breadth will be to say “I told you so!”

Not sure what/who you are referring to here. Going out in the sun and having a good time is not what the lockdown is about, unless it involves daily exercise alone or with members of the household. Unnessary travel, as per the long distance anglers recently, always increases the risk of spreading a disease to other areas, some of which might not have previously been infected. We learned this from the foot and mouth outbreaks.

I like the comments about anglers though!

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Kim Hedges on 18/04/2020(UTC)
Kate  
#163 Posted : 15 April 2020 18:58:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

This is the BBC news article about research into the relevance of DNA:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52243605

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Wailes900134 on 16/04/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 18/04/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#164 Posted : 15 April 2020 20:23:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post
The holier than though tendency has emerged again with people who have nothing to do other than whinge about other people going out

Plenty of exercise for this mob jumping to conclusion and running for the cover of annonimity - trouble is they are also targetting the very NHS staff they will be reliant upon proven by yet another example

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/nurse-nasty-note-car-peterborough-18092768

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Kim Hedges on 18/04/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 18/04/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#165 Posted : 15 April 2020 20:23:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post
The holier than though tendency has emerged again with people who have nothing to do other than whinge about other people going out

Plenty of exercise for this mob jumping to conclusion and running for the cover of annonimity - trouble is they are also targetting the very NHS staff they will be reliant upon proven by yet another example

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/nurse-nasty-note-car-peterborough-18092768

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Kim Hedges on 18/04/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 18/04/2020(UTC)
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