Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

26 Pages«<7891011>»
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
peter gotch  
#321 Posted : 27 May 2020 12:14:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Thanks Roundtuit.

Love the front page comment beneath the cut out mask.

"There's no holding back for the Daily *"

British journalism at its finest and perceptive.

biker1  
#322 Posted : 27 May 2020 12:19:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

We may actually see POTUS break his links with Social Media.

Despite his many inexcusable and down right dangerous posts regarding virus treatments his latest rambling on postal voting has been tagged with a fact check warning.

I think many of his posts should come with a libel warning as well.

Perhaps if he abstained from social media, he might actually get some work done, that would be refreshing.

chris42  
#323 Posted : 28 May 2020 09:07:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: chris42 Go to Quoted Post

Does anyone actually know anything about this track and trace app. Has there been any mention of how close you need to be to someone else for it to register. Bluetooth will work over quite a distance.

We were discussing how this could potentially take out a complete workplace for us in one go, even though people are two-meter distancing.

Chris

Last night’s briefing answered my question in a mumbled and wrongly interpreted by one reporter (who said over 2m). The app will register if you are less than 2m from someone for over 15 minutes!

 Are they then saying that you can be less than 2m away from people for 10 minutes and not catch Covid 19 ?

What are others thoughts on this?

Chris

CptBeaky  
#324 Posted : 28 May 2020 09:18:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

As I recall, back when this all began the advice for face to face meetings was less than 15 minutes. So I assume there is some scientific backing to this. It would be nice of sources were given for any scientific advice they are following.

Roundtuit  
#325 Posted : 28 May 2020 09:41:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Don't forget the scientists are reviewing advice with consideration of 1m (in line with current WHO recommendations).

As those who are still in their pre-covid workplaces and those intending to return have identified and vocalised 2m spacing for many is impossible and by consequence uneconomic.

Just like with the Social Distancing rules I can forsee malicious information being passed in to this system.

Then there are the issues of do you personally know the name, number and email of every person you are in contact with during a day and can you recall all of them up to two weeks later?

captcha for Dominic - eJUT

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Kim Hedges on 28/05/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 28/05/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#326 Posted : 28 May 2020 09:41:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Don't forget the scientists are reviewing advice with consideration of 1m (in line with current WHO recommendations).

As those who are still in their pre-covid workplaces and those intending to return have identified and vocalised 2m spacing for many is impossible and by consequence uneconomic.

Just like with the Social Distancing rules I can forsee malicious information being passed in to this system.

Then there are the issues of do you personally know the name, number and email of every person you are in contact with during a day and can you recall all of them up to two weeks later?

captcha for Dominic - eJUT

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Kim Hedges on 28/05/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 28/05/2020(UTC)
chris.packham  
#327 Posted : 28 May 2020 09:52:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

So I am on a crowded tube train in London for about 20 minutes. During this time people will have got on and off. Am I suppose to keep a record of those who remain on for 15 minutes and are in close proximity to me? How will I know who they are? Can anyone explain to me how this will work?

thanks 1 user thanked chris.packham for this useful post.
Kim Hedges on 28/05/2020(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#328 Posted : 28 May 2020 10:23:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

In theory, new “virus tracers” will be able to track any possible contact of anybody who tests positive using this new phone app. This of course depends on:

  1. The testing picking up all of the people who carrying the virus and are not self-isolating
  2. Enough people are carrying a phone with the new app ( at 60-80% to make the system viable)
  3. The new app is generally available-according to the government’s plans  it will be available  nationally, “later next month”
  4. And people who are contacted actually turning up to be tested as opposed to going to work etc.
thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
Kim Hedges on 28/05/2020(UTC)
Kate  
#329 Posted : 28 May 2020 10:39:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

There are no safe threshold values for being in proximity to others.  The closer you are, the higher the risk.  The longer you are there, the higher the risk. The various values such as 1 metre, 2 metres, 15 minutes and so on are just attempts to draw a line for the level of risk that is considered acceptable.  It's very like saying you shouldn't lift more than 20 kg. 20 kg is not a magic number below which there is no risk of harm, it is a guide to the point in the spectrum of risk of harm to what is considered acceptable.

thanks 5 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
biker1 on 28/05/2020(UTC), nic168 on 28/05/2020(UTC), chris42 on 28/05/2020(UTC), Roundtuit on 28/05/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 28/05/2020(UTC)
biker1  
#330 Posted : 28 May 2020 12:03:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Sometimes the government advice sounds like a sop to make us all feel safer, with the scientific evidence to back it up quite shaky. Two metres might be a reasonable distance if people are breathing and talking normally, but the fallout from a cough or sneeze can carry up to eight metres. Unfortunately, governments don't have a brilliant track record in this field. During the cold war, standard advice in case of nuclear attack was to get under the dining room table. This was hardly credible at the time, and just sounds completely ludicrous now. It came across as needing to tell the public something to make them feel in control and better, however ridiculous it might be. Thinking back to my microbiological learning, the spittle from normal conversation can carry up to two feet, perhaps a metre. Where the WHO gets the idea of one metre separation from I'm not sure, but they have been consistent in pushing this. The notion that you would have to be in close contact for over 15 minutes also sounds implausible.

As I understand it (which I don't really), at the moment the trace and track system will depend on manual reporting to an army of 25,000 tracers. If you are only in close contact with a few people, this might stand a chance, but where people congregate, I don't understand how this will possibly work. The ultimate system will apparently rely on the phone app, whenever we get this, but even then there is a debate about centralised and de-centralised systems. Initial results from the trial on the Isle of Wight have been mixed, to say the least.

Coupled with delays in getting test results, there is a risk of absolute confusion and chaos. During Hancock's Half Hour, we were told that anyone can now get a test. Really?

Are we going to see the inevitable stuff on social media - 'I've got coronavirus, LOL'.

thanks 2 users thanked biker1 for this useful post.
RVThompson on 28/05/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 28/05/2020(UTC)
ricci  
#331 Posted : 28 May 2020 12:13:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ricci

The infection is based on viral load. the more sick a person is the higher the amount they will shed. As most people we meet are on the l8wer end of this scale. The Government app will register when you are close to other phones. the time I heard was causing difficulties in registering. Most low power Bluetooth would be about 3m. The data on the government will then be transmitted to their central servers where it is stored and can be examined if someone shows as infected. The Google apple system works slightly different in that the data is stored on the phone and deleted on a rolling bases of 3 weeks. if someone is infected their phone check their data and sends a message to other phones which show contact. The government has employed a private firm to store and safeguard the data

thanks 1 user thanked ricci for this useful post.
Kim Hedges on 28/05/2020(UTC)
chris42  
#332 Posted : 28 May 2020 13:03:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

In theory, new “virus tracers” will be able to track any possible contact of anybody who tests positive using this new phone app. This of course depends on:

  1. The testing picking up all of the people who carrying the virus and are not self-isolating
  2. Enough people are carrying a phone with the new app ( at 60-80% to make the system viable)
  3. The new app is generally available-according to the government’s plans  it will be available  nationally, “later next month”
  4. And people who are contacted actually turning up to be tested as opposed to going to work etc.

item 4 - They have not been saying go get tested if contacted, they are saying isolate yourself for 14 days (not just stay at home but isolate yourself at home - and from family ???). Even if you had Covid 19 a few weeks before as they cannot guarantee you are immune. Any sensible person would go get tested because the results will only take 24 hours (wont it), but are you allowed to then able to go out if negative. I can see this causing chaos.

Thing is our HR person came out with this 15-minute idea, and some of the directors were then making plans on interaction based on this, as it was ok for 14 minutes and 59 seconds close to someone.  Then makes it hard work for me to sort out and explain as Kate noted.

One of the biggest issues I see with this is the lack of a usable fact sheet, with things they do know and things they don't or are not sure about. This has allowed all sorts of myths which people may think are credible, and becomes hard for us to sort through and combat.

Chris

thanks 2 users thanked chris42 for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 28/05/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 28/05/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#333 Posted : 28 May 2020 13:24:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Once again the wizz kids strike assuming they have come up with a great app that can track everyone and who they interact with (because eveyone has the same handset and uses it in exactly the same way).

Oops - not everyone has a smart phone

Oops - not everyone carries them at all times

Oops - not everyone bothers to switch them on

Oops - not every phone has BlueTooth installed

Oops - not every phone has the same compatible version of BlueTooth

Oops - many only switch on BlueTooth for a purpose (particularly those with poor battery life hand sets)

Oops - not everyone can download apps

Oops - not enough phone memory available to install the app

Oops - not everyone is permitted to install apps

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Kim Hedges on 28/05/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 28/05/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#334 Posted : 28 May 2020 13:24:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Once again the wizz kids strike assuming they have come up with a great app that can track everyone and who they interact with (because eveyone has the same handset and uses it in exactly the same way).

Oops - not everyone has a smart phone

Oops - not everyone carries them at all times

Oops - not everyone bothers to switch them on

Oops - not every phone has BlueTooth installed

Oops - not every phone has the same compatible version of BlueTooth

Oops - many only switch on BlueTooth for a purpose (particularly those with poor battery life hand sets)

Oops - not everyone can download apps

Oops - not enough phone memory available to install the app

Oops - not everyone is permitted to install apps

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Kim Hedges on 28/05/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 28/05/2020(UTC)
biker1  
#335 Posted : 28 May 2020 14:32:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Quite so. The age group most at risk (the more mature, if I may be diplomatic) are probably the lowest users of smartphones, so the whole thing could pass them by. The system then depends on people having the discipline to self-isolate. Problem. If some people can't resist the urge to flock to the seaside and cram the beaches, I can't see them obeying a request to shut themselves away, and certainly when they perceive the 'lockdown' coming to an end, and they are getting back to work. Sanctions are being considered if they don't, but this then raises the question of how they will be imposed and who will police it. As with most of the government's response to the virus, too little too late.

thanks 1 user thanked biker1 for this useful post.
Kim Hedges on 28/05/2020(UTC)
Kim Hedges  
#336 Posted : 28 May 2020 16:52:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

Thursday 28th May 2020.  It’s a lovely sunny warm day across most of the country.

Tests that are now positive will now be traced by a tracker.   

This falls foul of lengthy turnarounds of the lab data.

Next bear trap, a person who is a tracker, will phone you, give you an email address and expect you to click on the incoming email.  This goes against most basic internet protection, as you cannot trust the tracker or email at this time.  You might be opening up your email and thus your computer to a malicious cyber-attack which may even involve ransom ware.

A solution, have the trackers use the UK Governments own website.  Positive persons go into the UK.Gov. Web page, the website requires your mobile phone number, then a 6 digit number is sent to the positive person.  The positive person enters the code into the web page at the defined place.  This is a secure web page.

It all fails though if the positive person does not have access to a computer or smart phone.

Perhaps there needs to be some bright Herbert, wearing full PPE (due to virus loading) and ask that

‘tech-less’ (did I just stumble upon a new word?) person some questions in person?

thanks 1 user thanked Kim Hedges for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 29/05/2020(UTC)
peter gotch  
#337 Posted : 28 May 2020 16:55:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Matt Hancock explained it very well on BBC Breakfast this morning.

It's an "instruction" but compliance is voluntary.

Translated as "it's a rule, but you don't have to follow it".

Government Ministers and their advisers have "form".

thanks 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
aud on 28/05/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#338 Posted : 28 May 2020 17:53:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Not only government advisors - members of Liverpool city council ruling Labour party

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/cabinet-member-suspended-deputy-mayor-18323905

Edited by user 28 May 2020 17:54:15(UTC)  | Reason: link

Roundtuit  
#339 Posted : 28 May 2020 17:53:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Not only government advisors - members of Liverpool city council ruling Labour party

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/cabinet-member-suspended-deputy-mayor-18323905

Edited by user 28 May 2020 17:54:15(UTC)  | Reason: link

chris42  
#340 Posted : 29 May 2020 07:47:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

While watching the daily briefings and other interviews with politicians and ministers, advisors etc. I wondered how are they keeping their hair so tidy on the basis I have not had a haircut for 3 months (yes poor timing on my part). Its ok if you are bald or have a No 1 trim all over, but most don’t.

Or are hairdressers allowed if you go on telly?

Chris

thanks 1 user thanked chris42 for this useful post.
Kim Hedges on 29/05/2020(UTC)
biker1  
#341 Posted : 29 May 2020 09:48:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

A bit depressing that, even if the 60-80% of people sign up, the system will only apparently be up to 15% effective in reducing infections. Are they familiar with the concept of cost effectiveness? The softly softly aproach all along has allowed sections of society to stick two fingers up to the 'lockdown'. The police, who were already struggling to interpret and apply unclear guidance from the government, really don't know what they are to do now. Once contact has been further opened up between households on Monday, the police might as well give up trying to enforce anything, not that they were given sufficient powers to do this anyway.

I thought the idea of having a standing army was to defend the country against attack and threat to life. The only difference in this current crisis is that the enemy is within in terms of threatening life by spreading the virus.

Dentists are to be allowed to start seeing patients again on Monday, despite a well documented lack of PPE. When are GPs going to start seeing patients again? We're thinking of applying to the GMC for registration as GPs, since we have been doing a lot of their job for them.

thanks 1 user thanked biker1 for this useful post.
Kim Hedges on 29/05/2020(UTC)
Kim Hedges  
#342 Posted : 29 May 2020 12:41:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

Agreed Biker1.  Our Government is a lilly livered bunch of malcontents, not much difference between them from the last 60 years.  I've been watching some of the documentary TV programmes about British politics again and it's annoying to understand what their motivations were and what we actually ended up getting.  So this Pandemic and locally manufactured laws are as pathetic as most British Law - the bare minimum of what the country actually needs. 

It's a bad law if members of the public have to ask to explain the details time and time again.

Kim Hedges  
#343 Posted : 29 May 2020 13:04:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

Agreed Chris42. 

I'm vain, I have hair, but because the hairdressers are all closed, I now have longer silver hair, which I hate and it's longer than any time in my life.  

I've been colouring my hair since I was in my 30's, when my hair turned into a salt and pepper affair, not good for me. 

Could the country raise some money to buy Borris Johnson a brush for his mop?  God I hate his hair. 

A Kurdziel  
#344 Posted : 29 May 2020 13:16:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

My wife has informed that she thinks that they have not being seeing hairdressers on the qt. It’s just that even the worse lockdown haircut looks OK next to Boris’s bizarre thatch.

He has some uses after all!

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
nic168 on 01/06/2020(UTC)
aud  
#345 Posted : 29 May 2020 19:21:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
aud

Originally Posted by: biker1 Go to Quoted Post

The police, who were already struggling to interpret and apply unclear guidance from the government, really don't know what they are to do now.

Can't let that go without pointing out that the police can only enforce law. Not guidelines, instructions, rules or interpretations. The regulations do allow a little elbow room for interpretation, as in my reading of the text, most of the things now being proclaimed as 'allowed' were never legally prohibited in the first place.

Move on, nothing to see here . . . 

stevedm  
#346 Posted : 31 May 2020 07:54:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

back to Kims post #334...in what I am beginning to cal the IOSH equivalent of the Daily mail...but it does make me giggle (not #334 but the whole 'blog')....we have since Oct 19 employed manual contact tracing for COVID-19...this includes frontline staff when taking  history, ask appropriate questions....we have in some countries limited access to the heathcare offices - funnily enough China is actually one of the best for access locally that is...this is all added t the PT databse which we can query and warn staff attending that there is HI/MED/LOW chances of coming into contact with a case's contact....we employed the exact same process when tracing other high consequence threats such as Ebola etc...

boblewis  
#347 Posted : 31 May 2020 22:29:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Originally Posted by: biker1 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post
We may actually see POTUS break his links with Social Media. Despite his many inexcusable and down right dangerous posts regarding virustreatments his latest rambling on postal voting has been tagged with a fact check warning.
I think many of his posts should come with a libel warning as well. Perhaps if he abstained from social media, he might actually get some work done, that would be refreshing.
I think there are many uk media outlets that need a truth warning over thjis whole Covid event. The Cummins affair is a prime example of reality being a long way from a good story. Some should try caring for an autistic spectrum child who fears strangers - a nightmare task.
thanks 1 user thanked boblewis for this useful post.
Natasha.Graham on 01/06/2020(UTC)
biker1  
#348 Posted : 01 June 2020 09:13:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Fair point. The media never let the truth get in the way of a good story. It is apparently what sells newspapers, more's the pity.

I see there is now a new golfing term. A 'Dominic Cummings' is a long drive that goes out of bounds, but there's no penalty

biker1  
#349 Posted : 01 June 2020 14:19:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Originally Posted by: aud Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: biker1 Go to Quoted Post

The police, who were already struggling to interpret and apply unclear guidance from the government, really don't know what they are to do now.

Can't let that go without pointing out that the police can only enforce law. Not guidelines, instructions, rules or interpretations. The regulations do allow a little elbow room for interpretation, as in my reading of the text, most of the things now being proclaimed as 'allowed' were never legally prohibited in the first place.

Move on, nothing to see here . . . 

Good point. I think the police have been badly let down by the government. With much reduced numbers, they have been expected to enforce guidance, which of course they can't do in the absence of clear legal powers. It would have been far better, and clearer, to have embedded the 'guidance' into law, stating clearly what the law requires, and providing grounds for enforcement (better still, get the army in). With the jumbled mess that easing of restrictions has become, the police are pretty much powerless. Witness the scenes at seaside resorts and the peak district to realise that sections of the public have simply abandoned any sense of precautions or decency.

Second wave, here we come.

biker1  
#350 Posted : 01 June 2020 14:35:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Incidentally, does anyone know/understand how the R number is calculated? I know the usual description is how many people one person with COVID infects, but how is it actually worked out? Is it done on the number of new cases against the number of existing cases, which is surely misleading, since we don't know how the new cases got infected, and by whom? With asymptomatic carriers, and delays in incubation, how do we know how many people have been infected? I might be missing something obvious, but I don't understand.

Kate  
#351 Posted : 01 June 2020 15:11:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

You're not missing anything obvious - it is indeed complicated and uncertain to estimate.

biker1  
#352 Posted : 01 June 2020 16:18:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

That's ok then, I thought it was just me.

Is this then another form of obscuration and sleight of hand by the government? Weren't we given dire warnings about how many people one person could infect, who could then infect so many others, early on in the crisis? I am having trouble matching this to the current R number figures, which seem to contradict what we were originally told.

Has anyone been contacted by the tracking and tracing system yet? No? Thought not. It has been launched before the one thing that might make it work is available - the phone app. And what a wonderful idea to tell the vulnerable and shielded people that it's ok for them to go out now, before we have a working system to protect them. Read an article by someone who signed up to be one of the tracers, who found the whole system and training a complete shambles, and quit.

Honestly, Forest Gump could have made a better job of things than this pathetic government. We have one thing in common with the USA - we are both being led by a bunch of muppets, with a complete muppet at the helm. Gives a whole new meaning to our special relationship with them.

Not only have large numbers of people abandoned good sense by congregating at beauty spots, we also have crowds of people huddled together in protests. Wonderful.

stevedm  
#353 Posted : 01 June 2020 16:57:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

to further confuse and alarm matters ...US CDC has just issued a a paper saying that the initial R0 rate of 2.5 was a conservative estimate it is more like 5.7...which means instead of 1 positive COVID-19 = 2-3 infected it means 1 COVID-19 positive = 5-6 infected people...and the initial infection doubling rate was not 5-6 days but 2-3...god loves data science...they forgot to add the domestic travellers in the initial Wuhan data!!...  :)

biker1  
#354 Posted : 02 June 2020 08:24:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Well, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. The temptation to massage the figures to make government performance look better will be just too great for some countries, or it could just be a case of an inefficient system of collecting information. I have heard that the figures from the UK office of national statistics are two weeks behind, which doesn't inspire confidence. No doubt Trump will be on Twitter in due course to call this fake news.

Roundtuit  
#355 Posted : 02 June 2020 08:54:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

We knew at announcement that the proposed travel quarantine would be unworkable.

The review document indicates those isolating would be free to excercsie, shop, change location so quarantine in name only.

Transpires even before it is voted in to law they are already tinkering and bowing to business pressure with the air-bridge/no quarantine scenario.

Roundtuit  
#356 Posted : 02 June 2020 08:54:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

We knew at announcement that the proposed travel quarantine would be unworkable.

The review document indicates those isolating would be free to excercsie, shop, change location so quarantine in name only.

Transpires even before it is voted in to law they are already tinkering and bowing to business pressure with the air-bridge/no quarantine scenario.

biker1  
#357 Posted : 02 June 2020 10:54:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

We knew at announcement that the proposed travel quarantine would be unworkable.

The review document indicates those isolating would be free to excercsie, shop, change location so quarantine in name only.

Transpires even before it is voted in to law they are already tinkering and bowing to business pressure with the air-bridge/no quarantine scenario.

Not wishing to get told off for dabbling in politics, but this is to be expected from a Tory government. Ideology and vested interests will always triumph over public good.

Or I could just be cynical!

Kate  
#358 Posted : 02 June 2020 11:05:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

R will vary during the course of an epidemic, this is to be expected.  It will typically be at the highest at the start.  It is then expected to fall for two main reasons: the smaller number of susceptible people left to infect (as more and more people have already been infected, and so are not infected again due to immunity or death); and changes in people's behaviour as a result of a desire to avoid infection or public health measures.  It will also vary according to the locations it has got to, for example it will be lower in isolated rural areas than in heavily populated cities. 

biker1  
#359 Posted : 02 June 2020 11:12:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Quite so, but I'm waiting for that R number to creep up again with the behaviour of many people recently, then what are they going to do? Trying to persuade thousands of people to go back into 'lockdown' will be like trying to catch a wave on the beach (particularly one of the currently crowded ones!). This government doesn't seem keen on imposing legal measures, and doesn't have the means to enforce them anyway unless they bring in the army

stevedm  
#360 Posted : 03 June 2020 07:39:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

It wasn't meant to downplay the R0 it really was to say that it is complicated and difficult to calculate yet we seem to bandy it about like its peanuts..epidemiologists I salute you..  :)

John Murray  
#361 Posted : 03 June 2020 09:19:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

Originally Posted by: biker1 Go to Quoted Post

Quite so, but I'm waiting for that R number to creep up again with the behaviour of many people recently, then what are they going to do? Trying to persuade thousands of people to go back into 'lockdown' will be like trying to catch a wave on the beach (particularly one of the currently crowded ones!). This government doesn't seem keen on imposing legal measures, and doesn't have the means to enforce them anyway unless they bring in the army

Particularly as the toilets are not open......don't go under the pier at Brighton......and it isn't sewage outflow!

Still, makes a change from the buried disposables being uncovered by the tide..

biker1  
#362 Posted : 03 June 2020 09:24:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Events in the USA are rapidly taking on the appearance of a soap opera. Protesters tear gassed and cleared out of the way so that Trump can do a photo call holding a bible. Hmm, let me think about that one. What that country needs is leadership; all they're getting from Trump is threats. Noticeable that his response to protests has been the opposite to when people were demonstrating against the lockdown, when he urged governors to talk to the people and listen to them.

Is BoJo modelling himself on Trump? The scientific experts are issuing dire warnings about easing 'lockdown', but they seem to be increasingly ignored, and he is ploughing on with this despite the necessary systems not being in place. Rings a bell.

A Kurdziel  
#363 Posted : 03 June 2020 10:38:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Having gotten bored of the Covid 19 I have taken to watching Tiger King on Netflix. Fascinating programme which shows you the sort of society that you can end up with if you only believe in “individualism” and your right to do what the hell you like, how you like. It also gives you a clue as to why the good ol’ US of A has such a lousy record on H&S. (It’s because nobody will take responsibility for anything and everybody is trying to get one over everybody else- so essentially it’s a cultural issue.)

Edited by user 04 June 2020 09:52:36(UTC)  | Reason: missing words

John Murray  
#364 Posted : 03 June 2020 11:29:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

Originally Posted by: biker1 Go to Quoted Post

Events in the USA are rapidly taking on the appearance of a soap opera. Protesters tear gassed and cleared out of the way so that Trump can do a photo call holding a bible. Hmm, let me think about that one. What that country needs is leadership; all they're getting from Trump is threats. Noticeable that his response to protests has been the opposite to when people were demonstrating against the lockdown, when he urged governors to talk to the people and listen to them.

Is BoJo modelling himself on Trump? The scientific experts are issuing dire warnings about easing 'lockdown', but they seem to be increasingly ignored, and he is ploughing on with this despite the necessary systems not being in place. Rings a bell.

Since he is [apparently] going to make "antifa" a terrorist "organisation", and since the blue party are, basically, antifascists ?

Users browsing this topic
Guest
26 Pages«<7891011>»
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.