Thanks Roundtuit.

Love the front page comment beneath the cut out mask.

"There's no holding back for the Daily *"

British journalism at its finest and perceptive.

Originally Posted by: chris42

Does anyone actually know anything about this track and trace app. Has there been any mention of how close you need to be to someone else for it to register. Bluetooth will work over quite a distance.

We were discussing how this could potentially take out a complete workplace for us in one go, even though people are two-meter distancing.

Chris

Last night’s briefing answered my question in a mumbled and wrongly interpreted by one reporter (who said over 2m). The app will register if you are less than 2m from someone for over 15 minutes!

 Are they then saying that you can be less than 2m away from people for 10 minutes and not catch Covid 19 ?

What are others thoughts on this?

Chris

Don't forget the scientists are reviewing advice with consideration of 1m (in line with current WHO recommendations).

As those who are still in their pre-covid workplaces and those intending to return have identified and vocalised 2m spacing for many is impossible and by consequence uneconomic.

Just like with the Social Distancing rules I can forsee malicious information being passed in to this system.

Then there are the issues of do you personally know the name, number and email of every person you are in contact with during a day and can you recall all of them up to two weeks later?

captcha for Dominic - eJUT

In theory, new “virus tracers” will be able to track any possible contact of anybody who tests positive using this new phone app. This of course depends on:

1. The testing picking up all of the people who carrying the virus and are not self-isolating
2. Enough people are carrying a phone with the new app ( at 60-80% to make the system viable)
3. The new app is generally available-according to the government’s plans  it will be available  nationally, “later next month”
4. And people who are contacted actually turning up to be tested as opposed to going to work etc.

Sometimes the government advice sounds like a sop to make us all feel safer, with the scientific evidence to back it up quite shaky. Two metres might be a reasonable distance if people are breathing and talking normally, but the fallout from a cough or sneeze can carry up to eight metres. Unfortunately, governments don't have a brilliant track record in this field. During the cold war, standard advice in case of nuclear attack was to get under the dining room table. This was hardly credible at the time, and just sounds completely ludicrous now. It came across as needing to tell the public something to make them feel in control and better, however ridiculous it might be. Thinking back to my microbiological learning, the spittle from normal conversation can carry up to two feet, perhaps a metre. Where the WHO gets the idea of one metre separation from I'm not sure, but they have been consistent in pushing this. The notion that you would have to be in close contact for over 15 minutes also sounds implausible.

As I understand it (which I don't really), at the moment the trace and track system will depend on manual reporting to an army of 25,000 tracers. If you are only in close contact with a few people, this might stand a chance, but where people congregate, I don't understand how this will possibly work. The ultimate system will apparently rely on the phone app, whenever we get this, but even then there is a debate about centralised and de-centralised systems. Initial results from the trial on the Isle of Wight have been mixed, to say the least.

Coupled with delays in getting test results, there is a risk of absolute confusion and chaos. During Hancock's Half Hour, we were told that anyone can now get a test. Really?

Are we going to see the inevitable stuff on social media - 'I've got coronavirus, LOL'.

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel

In theory, new “virus tracers” will be able to track any possible contact of anybody who tests positive using this new phone app. This of course depends on:

1. The testing picking up all of the people who carrying the virus and are not self-isolating
2. Enough people are carrying a phone with the new app ( at 60-80% to make the system viable)
3. The new app is generally available-according to the government’s plans  it will be available  nationally, “later next month”
4. And people who are contacted actually turning up to be tested as opposed to going to work etc.

item 4 - They have not been saying go get tested if contacted, they are saying isolate yourself for 14 days (not just stay at home but isolate yourself at home - and from family ???). Even if you had Covid 19 a few weeks before as they cannot guarantee you are immune. Any sensible person would go get tested because the results will only take 24 hours (wont it), but are you allowed to then able to go out if negative. I can see this causing chaos.

Thing is our HR person came out with this 15-minute idea, and some of the directors were then making plans on interaction based on this, as it was ok for 14 minutes and 59 seconds close to someone.  Then makes it hard work for me to sort out and explain as Kate noted.

One of the biggest issues I see with this is the lack of a usable fact sheet, with things they do know and things they don't or are not sure about. This has allowed all sorts of myths which people may think are credible, and becomes hard for us to sort through and combat.

Chris

Quite so. The age group most at risk (the more mature, if I may be diplomatic) are probably the lowest users of smartphones, so the whole thing could pass them by. The system then depends on people having the discipline to self-isolate. Problem. If some people can't resist the urge to flock to the seaside and cram the beaches, I can't see them obeying a request to shut themselves away, and certainly when they perceive the 'lockdown' coming to an end, and they are getting back to work. Sanctions are being considered if they don't, but this then raises the question of how they will be imposed and who will police it. As with most of the government's response to the virus, too little too late.

Matt Hancock explained it very well on BBC Breakfast this morning.

It's an "instruction" but compliance is voluntary.

Translated as "it's a rule, but you don't have to follow it".

Government Ministers and their advisers have "form".

While watching the daily briefings and other interviews with politicians and ministers, advisors etc. I wondered how are they keeping their hair so tidy on the basis I have not had a haircut for 3 months (yes poor timing on my part). Its ok if you are bald or have a No 1 trim all over, but most don’t.

Or are hairdressers allowed if you go on telly?

Chris

Agreed Biker1.  Our Government is a lilly livered bunch of malcontents, not much difference between them from the last 60 years.  I've been watching some of the documentary TV programmes about British politics again and it's annoying to understand what their motivations were and what we actually ended up getting.  So this Pandemic and locally manufactured laws are as pathetic as most British Law - the bare minimum of what the country actually needs. 

It's a bad law if members of the public have to ask to explain the details time and time again.

My wife has informed that she thinks that they have not being seeing hairdressers on the qt. It’s just that even the worse lockdown haircut looks OK next to Boris’s bizarre thatch.

He has some uses after all!