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KeithF  
#1 Posted : 05 April 2024 08:21:24(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
KeithF

I have a client who builds saunas. They have a 'Show Sauna' on the side of a small stream. The sauna is about 10 feet above a deep pool, which punters are told to avoid. There is a plunge pool in a safe area, but people can stray into the deeper pool. The middle of the river is reasonably fast-flowing - enough to take the unwary downstream and over the rocks. The river is only about 1210 yards wide, but there are rocks just downstream. After rainfall, the river can rise quickly. 

I have considered several ways of putting ropes across the water, but I am wary of people becoming entangled or the pressure of the water still pulling people under. 

Has anyone had experience risk assessing a 'plunge pool' or wild swimming in this sort of environment? 

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/8qa47rlmrt9zujik650u8/h?rlkey=ydbuay0ai3x76wru9g56a63ai&dl=0 

firesafety101  
#2 Posted : 05 April 2024 11:35:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Not as easy as you may think.  The client will have employees who work near the open water therefore there must be a raft (pun intended) or precautions including floatation aids, provide handrails near the open edges, keep water rescue equipment easily accessible, keep the area around the water hazard clear, and lots more.

Sounds like a very hazardous place for customers.

Pirellipete  
#3 Posted : 05 April 2024 12:13:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Pirellipete

Dont outdoor swimming pools require secure fencing and access gates etc ?

I'd consider something similar as you're not a million miles away from being outdoor pool and can then segregate the spa users from the hazard of the open water ?

peter gotch  
#4 Posted : 05 April 2024 16:33:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Keith

I suggest you review and add to what you have posted.

Very much doubt that what you describe as both a stream and a river is over 1000 yards WIDE. Did you mean millimetres or inches?

Would be sensible to put ALL units in metric as we started to officially move from imperial in the 1970s except for road signage and nautical stuff and similar.

You have two somewhat interrelating legal issues here - occupational health and safety legislation and the Occupier's Liability Act or Acts depending on where this is (assuming in the UK), together with the civil litigation implications associated with each.

To work out what is reasonably practicable, it would be necessary to consider numerous variables that you haven't mentioned including, inter alia:

Level of usage of the facilities.

Location, dimensions of the sauna and each artificial pool.

Distance from stream or river and more information about its nature.

What, if any, precautions are in place to prevent someone falling into water in which they could drown or otherwise sustain injury of severity up to and including fatality AND to rescue people from same places.

What onsite first aid or medical facilities there are.

How easy it would be to get them off to hospital.

I could point you to some relatively relevant guidance on design considerations in relation to Occupier's Liability but that might be misinerprated at a site where people are presumably employed.

HSSnail  
#5 Posted : 08 April 2024 07:27:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Keith

Do you actualy want to incourage use of the river or not? 

If the answer is no then you might want to consider some of Firesafetys suggestions, but if its yes them lots of those will be of no use to you at all, in fact some of them may be counter productive if not down right dangerous! Fencing for example can restrict rescue attempts!

You may find these links useful, (even though it sounds as if you fall outside the licencing requirements still good advice).

Getting Started – Outdoor Swimming Society Outdoor Swimming Society

Health and safety leisure activities: Leisure activities (hse.gov.uk)

Are you a - AALA - HSE

Having been a professional SCUBA instructor, as well as working with organisations that run cannoning, climbing and river running activities i would not attempt to give you any specific advice on such a site from a forum posting. Every such site must be considered individually as they will vary. Remember most work place safety is about keeping people out of the water or at least providing flotation. If you try and apply these principles to an outdoor adventure sport activity/ outdoor swimming activity you will drown someone.

Good luck

KeithF  
#6 Posted : 08 April 2024 11:15:13(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
KeithF

Hi,

Thanks for the replies so far. This has been a very useful exercise.

Some additional information:

The facilities will be used 3-4 times over a weekend.

There are no artificial pools. The 'plunge pool' is a natural feature on the side of the 10m wide river, and the sauna sits on the top of the bank. There are rope 'fences' around the sauna deck, and rope/steps access to the pool. Currently (no pun intended), nothing prevents people from venturing further into the stream.  

It is proposed that pool lifeguard-trained people be on site, with floatation rings and throw lines available. There will also be on-site first aid facilities. Being in rural Wales, the hospital is some 30 miles away and patients are usually transported by air ambulances. 

Thanks all

HSSnail  
#7 Posted : 08 April 2024 12:28:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Keith

Who are going to use the rings? While you see them in lots of places they are actually frowned upon in life saving circles, the trick in using them in to throw them in-front of the casualty so they float up-to them, unfortunately untrained people try and use them like a hoopla and can often end up hitting the casualty causing greater risk of drowning.

Im afraid it looks like you have jumped in at the deep end (pun intended) of a very specialist area. Sometimes compitancy is recognising what we dont know as much as what we do know, be very careful what advice you take from this forum or you may end up in more hot water than just the sauna. I can see all kinds of potential hazards in this scenario where this risk could change minute by minute depending on things like weather, peoples ability etc. none of which can be assessed without a detailed site visit.

Im a big fan of outdoor adventure activities but you have to be so careful, and plan in detail, while neither of these are open-water swimming they give a salutatory lesson.

Pupil, 14, dies in pothole accident during school caving trip | UK news | The Guardian

Ben Leonard: Scouts 'putting lives at risk', coroner says - BBC News

Good luck in dealing with this issue.

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