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Stevie1975  
#1 Posted : 26 January 2025 16:39:12(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Stevie1975

I would like to get some further information and opinions on documenting dynamic risk assessments. I understand what they mean and the purpose of these etc. What I am not sure on is whether these always need to be documented as in reality, employees on the ground carrying out work will not take the time to document this. 

Hazard identification training I feel is important to ensure employees understand how to identify issues and what control measures to take to prevent serious injuries or fatality etc. The overarching risk assessment or SOP for the particular task will be the main documents to refer to and a DRA should only be required when something happens outside of the process. I do get the need for documentation but I feel we have to be practical also.

Interested in opinions please.

Kate  
#2 Posted : 27 January 2025 07:30:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I would advocate a very simple reporting system somewhat similar to how you might collect near miss reports if you were trying to drive up near miss reporting.  An easily available link on your intranet, or a section on your job report (or whatever is the existing medium you have to include this in) to answer the questions: 1. What was the unexpected thing that happened?  2. How did you deal with this? 3. How successful do you feel this method was?

So strip out all the risk assessment mumbo jumbo, and just find out what happened and what can be learned from it.

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 27/01/2025(UTC)
ahmadaseer@yahoo.co.in  
#3 Posted : 27 January 2025 08:40:55(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
ahmadaseer@yahoo.co.in

Hi Stevie,

I recommend including a section for Dynamic Risk Assessment (DRA) in the pre-start briefing sheet or the STARRT card. This ensures that any dynamic or emerging risks are assessed and documented effectively during the task. If your team isn’t using an application to record DRAs, this manual inclusion will ensure accountability and promote real-time hazard identification and control.

A Kurdziel  
#4 Posted : 27 January 2025 10:54:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Ok how about this a simple form/checklist:

  1. Can apply the standard RAMS- YES/NO. If YES just follow the standard RAMS if NO go the Q2.
  2. Explain why you can’t apply the  standard RAMS-this could be a drop down list of possible reasons why the standard RAMS does not apply.
  3. Can you modify the standard RAMS so that there is no additional risk created?   If YES, then do it and note what modifications you have carried out. If NO, then contact your line manager for more information.
  4. If there is no way to carry out the task without creating additional risk DON’T DO IT. Report back to your manager.
  5. The modifications to the RAMS must be noted and incorporated into the standard RAMS i.e you now know that if you are on a site where ‘x’ happens you must do ‘y’.

 

The last 2 bits are key to making dynamic risk assessments work. Staff on the ground must be empowered NOT to carry out a task if they think a RAMS is unsuitable and any new controls that introduced must be incorporated into a written standard RAMS for future reference.

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
peter gotch on 27/01/2025(UTC)
peter gotch  
#5 Posted : 27 January 2025 11:58:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

I'm with AK on keeping it simple though I wouldn't go quite as far as to say that if there is something unexpected people should automatically be elevating things to a higher level (Yes, AK I realise that's not exactly what you said!).

Possibly those at the sharp end do have the understanding and authority to make their own decisions as to what changes they need to implement to ensure appropriate H&S standards. 

That will depend on multiple factors including how experienced they are and what the problems are that present at the sharp end.

As example, suppose you have a couple of land surveyots who have to get from A to B and they come to a stream that is not shown on the map. It might be shallow enough and slow enough flowing for them to decide that if they do X and Y they can proceed as planned. OR they might think time to stop and go back to base camp and replan the job.

Life comes full with the need for lots of so called "work arounds". Most get dealt with by people on the job and most of the time the work is done successfully and without harm and with NO additional paperwork. However, a feedback loop will always help.

firesafety101  
#6 Posted : 27 January 2025 12:30:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

If you have the time to record everything on a reisk assessment form it is not a Dynamic risk assessment.

I would simply record in a notebook the fact that DRA has been carried out and enter brief information.

The proper risk assessment can be recorded back at the office.

A Kurdziel  
#7 Posted : 28 January 2025 12:52:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

What the HSE gets narked about is when people say it’s a dynamic risk assessment when what they really mean is we leave it for the people on the front line to make their decisions with no support from the centre and if it goes wrong, it’s their problem not ours i.e abdication of responsibility disguised as dynamic risk assessment. So of course to do it properly you need to train your staff so they are fully competent and you( the person at the centre) can trust them to make there own decisions including deciding not to do it.

thanks 5 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
John D C on 28/01/2025(UTC), peter gotch on 28/01/2025(UTC), stevedm on 29/01/2025(UTC), Holliday42333 on 29/01/2025(UTC), achrn on 29/01/2025(UTC)
stevedm  
#8 Posted : 29 January 2025 08:21:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

dynamic risk assessments are primarily designed for rapidly evolving/changing situations...the majority of workplace situations outside of emergency response that are truely dynamic are rare...hence the HSE narkiness...(oooee new word)..and if you are creating a checklist it really isn't.. 

thanks 2 users thanked stevedm for this useful post.
Holliday42333 on 29/01/2025(UTC), achrn on 29/01/2025(UTC)
Holliday42333  
#9 Posted : 29 January 2025 10:30:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Holliday42333

In my experience, even saying the words dynamic, or worse generic, with any connection to risk assessment gets the pulse rising in any regulator.

Even when the sole purpose is to review any non-foreseeable, on the day, changes to the documented risk assessment, I wouldn't even contemplate naming it any combination of dynamic or risk assessmant and be very clear that nobody should refer to it as such.

Fortunately my main experience of this came before FFI as there was hours and hours of HSE contact on this subject.  To be fair a predecessor had been 'convinced' by management that Generic Risk Assessments supplimented by "Daily Risk Assessments", completed by the workers (ie Employees not Employers) were what was needed.  Its also fair to say that said predecessor was absolutely scapegoated by said management for the subsequent regulator scrutiny.

thanks 2 users thanked Holliday42333 for this useful post.
Kate on 29/01/2025(UTC), peter gotch on 29/01/2025(UTC)
achrn  
#10 Posted : 29 January 2025 14:37:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Originally Posted by: stevedm Go to Quoted Post

dynamic risk assessments are primarily designed for rapidly evolving/changing situations...the majority of workplace situations outside of emergency response that are truely dynamic are rare...

The last 'debate' I had with someone over this was them insisting it was appropriate / best that they address the risks associated with a peat bed by a dynamic risk assesment.  So that would be the unexpected unanticipated existence of peat that had been there for 6,000 years then...?

So then they said that the dynamic risk assesment was needed to account for weather - such as if it rains.  So that would be the unexpected unanticipated occurence of rain on a Scottish island in winter then...?

I really don't like dynamic risk assesments - too often it's a code for 'make it up as you go along without proper thought'.

Holliday42333  
#11 Posted : 29 January 2025 14:50:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Holliday42333

Originally Posted by: achrn Go to Quoted Post

I really don't like dynamic risk assesments - too often it's a code for 'make it up as you go along without proper thought'.

 

..... and without the ability to actually implement anything other than very simple risk controls.

peter gotch  
#12 Posted : 29 January 2025 17:17:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi achrn

When I worked for HSE out of its Glasgow office and did 4 years covering construction, I often found myself on sites which hadn't been notified using the system pre CDM.

Essentially if the works on a site could be completed within 6 weeks it fell outside the requirement for the Contractor to send in Form 10.

....and they would argue that the reason that the site had overrun was that the weather had not been dry. 

"Have you never worked in the West of Scotland before? Rain is quite common here. In typical weather conditions was it likely that you would have finished this job in less than 6 weeks?"......or words to such effect.

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