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#1 Posted : 18 November 2000 14:41:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bruce Sutherland I, receieved the new brochure recently. I work for a commercial H and S training provider, and I am staggered at the costs of the IOSH courses, and would be interested in the reaction of others. ( And I am not interested in talking the market price down!!!) Other bodies that I am am a member of provide extremely high quality training courses with expensive speakers - judges and QC's - at fraction of the costs. I am not trying to question the fact that IOSH is in fact acting in direct competition to many of its member. There are probably some specialist courses which a normal provider may find difficult to market and that only a trade association may be in a position to run (eg perhaps the emergency planning ones, but I think I have seen flyers from other providers) If one accepts that IOSH should run courses, and I personally feel that they should be the courses that a commercial provider would not put on, then I stongly believe that a trade association should not be making a commercial return out of its members - I know the costs we incurr in running both residential and non residential courses, the costs of marketing, providing materials, good speakers etc. More importantly, I also know the charges that other organisation such as the Royal Institute of British Architects makes for a days CPD event (£50 - £80) If you have any views perhaps you would like to respond, and I very much look forward to hearing the offical explanation next week of the course fees.
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#2 Posted : 18 November 2000 16:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stuart Nagle Bruce. In certain instances I agree with your feelings on the cost of courses provided. IOSH however are not alone. There are many 'Profesional Bodies' that charge what appear to be very high prices for both training and CPD courses, and this includes most of the more senior Chartered Institutions. Training costs for most areas of health and safety related courses are very high. As a person who formulates and costs training courses for my company, as well as organising and providing the courses myself, I know the costs involved and can see no logical pricing structure to charges of several thousand pounds per head for courses where courses are fully subscribed, except that of making a good profit of course, which without doubt they must. I am not saying this is bad, however there should be consideration of 'affordability' to members. If anyone argues that they do not make profit, I must suggest that they are either not organising courses properly or are paying far to high a rate for instructors and/or facilities etc. The onus of any professional institution or body that professes to want, have, provide or lead members to a standard of professional competence, should I feel offer that assistance at the most economical price possible to it's members. I have not undertaken many courses I would like to, simply because I cannot afford the costs involved. Whilst my employer has paid for many training courses, I simply could not justify asking him to pay £2000 to £5000 for a course of training leading to say MIOSH that I can attain via a different training method for less that £1000 !!! In the past my colleagues and I have provided our time and experience/expertise, call it what you may, to others seeking to obtain wisdom (for want of a better description), for free, in the belief that we were serving our profession and I might add, getting a kick out of knowing we were helping others along the way. I have no doubt that if some further thought was applied to this area, the following options would not be unreasonable: 1) Much cheaper costs to members paying out of their own pocket for training/CPD courses. 2) A system of associateship for companies to make a contribution for 'membership' and their staff obtaining training at discounted rates (similar to the CITB !!!) 3) Members paying a slightly enhanced annual fee to pay for a set of basic/advanced training/CPD course(s) of study... 4) Higher membership fees for all to off-set the costs of providing training at lower costs to all members 5) Branches organising regional training for their own branch membership - instruction provided by the more experienced/qualified members. perhaps for a small fee - the branch meeting the admin costs I do not want to go on too long here so I throw the floor open to others for their comments and ideas... Stuart.
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#3 Posted : 18 November 2000 19:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Geoff Burt Hi Guys You are getting involved in questioning the policies of IOSH. Tread carefully. You will need a thick skin and to be prepared to take a lot of flack - especially from the older members. Constructive criticism is not always well received - I know! Geoff
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#4 Posted : 19 November 2000 09:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Alex Watts Despite Geoff's warning, I would like to enter the fray. As a self employed trainer/consultant,IOSH courses are much too expensive for me. There must be a better way! Alex Watts
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#5 Posted : 20 November 2000 15:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Hazel Harvey When the IOSH CPD scheme was set up in 1992, Council made the decision that those entering the scheme would pay a one-off £10 fee and all subsequent administration costs would be covered by profit generated from CPD courses. This is still the policy in place today. We have currently sent letters to the 1400 RSPs registered on the cycle and are in the process of receiving in and recording on the database the CPD records. This does have appreciable costs attached to it and this process takes place twice a year. The administration between the record call ins is also considerable. So in answer to the question IOSH does make a profit from the CPD courses but recycles most of it. The view taken at the time was that the membership subscriptions should not cover the cost of the CPD scheme as only a small proportion (10%) were actually obliged to undertake CPD. All IOSH courses are workshop based and are limited to 15 delegates. At the outset of the CPD courses larger events were run and higher profits were generated. However it became clear to the CPD Sub-Committee who oversee the scheme in general, that the comments coming back from members were requesting more hands-on type courses like those you see today, which are of course more expensive to stage. For some courses, particularly the legal based ones, the cost of staging the course actually exceeds the income generated (we're in the wrong profession!), these courses are subsidised by the others.If anyone can identify cheap legal trainers I would be delighted to receive their details. The members rate is discounted against non-members and there is a discount for multiple booking which can either be for an individual or a company. Larger seminar type events are frequently staged by our branches at very economical rates. Most of the speakers at these type of events will give up their time for free, whereas the presenters at the HQ events have to be paid at a commercial rate. Any profits generated by these events are retained by the branches themselves. The branches continue to stage meetings with interesting speakers throughout the year for free. A final note CPD courses are not compulsory, the Institution has always considered them to be an aid to members to find courses that may not be staged elsewhere.
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#6 Posted : 20 November 2000 20:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stuart Nagle Hazel. 1) I though CPD was compulsory for RSP you state that it is not compulsory? 2) Why do IOSH employ expensive legal eagles? I would have thought that the instituion had exoperts in health and safety that would fit into this niche and be able to offer the training at lesser costs? 3) No mention of increased membership fees to help reduce training costs overall - 'Hot Pot' this one eh!! I though you response rather 'starchy' was it transcribed for you or your own? best regards... Stuart Nagle
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