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#1 Posted : 10 March 2001 09:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert Dee I handle about 30 small building works per week around Great Britain, sometimes costing upto £15000. What basic H& S system, other than contractual ones, should I have in my office records to ensure that local health officers will be satisfied on COSHH, Workplace and Construction regs if things go wrong? Eg Do I need to have a formally recorded assessment before any order is issued, even for minor repairs?
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#2 Posted : 11 March 2001 11:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stuart Nagle If working on premises other than domestic dwellings, you will need to implemet CDM Regulations by the sound of it. 5 or employees involved, more than 30 hours work would apply to your to your situation I think. In addition, I suggest you get hold of, and read 'health & safety for Small Construction Sites' ISBN No: 0-7176-0806-9. In addition HSE also publish a number of free guidance sheets that can be dowloaded from their web site www.hes.gov.uk or are available free from HSE Books. their is a link to this site from the hse site. There will be quite a lot for you to take in and do by the sound of things, and if you have any doubts, I suggest you get hold of a safety professional to give you some advice and guidance in these matters to ensure you are doing what is legally required to protect yourself and your employees etc.. best regards... Stuart Nagle
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#3 Posted : 11 March 2001 19:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert Dee Thnaks, but CDM does not apply to 75% of the work. There are fewer than 5 men and certainly less that 300 man hour days involved. That is the query. Some work can last only a few hours and the HSE documents you mentioned give little guidance on whether an assessment is needed for such minor works.
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#4 Posted : 12 March 2001 10:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian Harper In my experince, use of CDM is of benifit, even if the job does not meet the requirements. Setting up of a Health & Safety Plan with input from the client and designer will hopefully assist you in trying to establish what information you need and how the job can be approched.(Dont worry about a planning supervisor role, it might work better without one!) I can recommend the CITB 5 day site safety management course along with their GE 700 publication for giving you an idea on managing contsruction safety. Don't be offended, as construction is a high risk area with lots of legislation, but I would consider the assitance of a consultant if you find the issues daunting. Contact me if you want further advice, I am not a consultantso I won't charge!
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#5 Posted : 12 March 2001 12:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Frank Cooper Robert, If 75% of your contracts don't come under CDM then 25% of them do and you have no choice but to follow the rules for CDM! However, for the 75% you need to address the safety issues in a logical manner and as a starting point I would be asking my contractor(s) to provide me with "Method Of Work Statements" for each job as well as Risk Assessments where I thought there was a risk or risks that were substantial enough to require dealing with.This should be done before work starts on each occasion. Remember, the job may only involve, say, re-hanging a door but if that door is on a fire evacuation route then obviously there is a risk that needs to be addressed. A pre-contract start meeting is a useful event to review these and to exchange local site safety information. You have no choice but to deal with each job at a time and, assuming you are using the same contractors, will be able to build up a picture as to their competency and to decide how much supervision they will need. Consider looking at the following HSE publications: A guide to Managing Health and Safety in Construction ISBN 0 7176 0755 0 for info on CDM and Managing Contractors : A guide for employers ISBN 0 7176 1196 5. Although the latter one is written for the chemical industry it has some useful pointers which may help. Regards, Frank Cooper
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#6 Posted : 12 March 2001 19:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Martyn Hendrie In order to avoid confusion for some of our non construction colleagues I would like to clarify the exemption from the CDM regulations as some of the responses to the original message are incorrect. There is an exemption from the CDM regulations wherever the local authority is responsible for enforcing health and safety legislation. There is also an exemption for non notifiable projects where the construction work will involve less that 5 people. [Notifiable projects are those with a construction phase greater that 30 days duration (not 30 hours) or more than 500 person days (not 300 person days)] The exemptions do not apply to any works that involve demolition or dismantling. Neither do they apply to the designers duties. If the original writer believes his projects fall witin then scope of the CDM regulations the his designers should be ensuring that he is aware of his (the clients) duties. He may also wish to get the Construction Information Sheets on the CDM regulations (from memory sheets 40-44??)which are available free from HSE books or can be dovnloaed from the HSE web site.
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#7 Posted : 13 March 2001 08:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ken Taylor For non CDM work, I suspect that most of us operate by: Seeking to engage safe contractors - either from approved lists of previously vetted companies or by vetting their paperwork, policies, past performance record, etc along the lines of HSE guidance for CDM work; Obtaining method statements and risk assessments where relevant; Holding pre-commencement meetings with structured agenda completing a check-list as evidence of agreed performance, exchange of safety information, etc; Monitoring performance on site; and Recording actual performance for future reference. One question to consider is 'Who will be in control of the workplace?. It transfers much of the risk and associated duties if you can give control of a discreet area of working (ring-fence) to the contractor.
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#8 Posted : 13 March 2001 21:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stuart Nagle Robert. Martyn has given you excellent information (please forgive my bleary eyed error on the keyboard - 30 !"£"$) As a parting note I have spoken to a local builder I know who does similar work. he states that he send notifications for all works he undertakes, even when he knows it is not necessary, and then lets some else (the recipient) decide whats applicable and whats not. One or two sheets of paper... perhaps he's got the right idea, as it seems to elicit a response telling him whether CDM is applicable or not and then he knows exactly where he stands... Just another way of skining the cat eh !! Stuart Nagle
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#9 Posted : 13 March 2001 21:42:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert Dee Thanks Gents. Your experience in H&S is very clear, but not in basic repairs and maintenance.It turns out that only Ken is near helping answer my original question about minor building works.As explained, CDM does NOT apply to most of our work yet CDM was the solution from Stuart.Martyn -thanks for info on CDM exemptions but my question was about assessments. Frank - your construction knowledge is evident, but you must know it is getting harder in some parts of the Country to get certain trades - let alone a roofer who will type out a method of working to get a job worth only 200 quid.Ian - set up a meeting with the Client and designer when a loo needs unblocking! For those of us in the construction industry for 30 years what we seek is practical guidance taking account of the shortages in the skilled labour market. The answer appears to be to record an assessment of site conditions and make sure there is someone "in control" of the premises when the tradesman calls. Right?
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#10 Posted : 14 March 2001 08:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian Harper Robert, My company undertakes similar activities, and we still try to apply cdm standards to the smallest of jobs. On thing to consider is that even the smallest jobs require method statements and risk assessments where a suffient risk exists. Ok granted you may not orgainse meetings for jobs at the £50 scale of things, but we have set up generic risk assessments for these type of activites. If the subbie cant/wont do one, we send him a copy of the generic which he has to agree to or amend and we approve. These live in a health & safety plan for "Maintance Activites", not for individual jobs. In this way we built up a base of safety information for even the smallest of jobs. One thing to consider, and I stand to be corrected but, if a maintence contract is let by, for instance by a local authority for five years, and individual orders are called off as part of the main contract, even for minor repairs, CDM applies.
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#11 Posted : 14 March 2001 09:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ciaran McAleenan Robert I’ve just had a chance to look at this thread. It would appear that you have received a lot of information but not an answer to your question. Risk assessment is a simple process, often made complex by those more concerned with the process than the outcome. It was always meant to help to improve safety performance, not hinder it. Whether you are working in small building works or the petrochemical industry is immaterial what is important is three questions that are at the heart of every hazard assessment; 1. What can cause harm? (to the workers/ passers by) 2. What am I doing to prevent it? 3. Am I doing enough? How complex the hazard analysis becomes will depend on the hazards you are faced with and I would think that in small building works you are not dealing with anything to far out of the ordinary. Your own answer seems to me to satisfy your needs. The key being the designation of a competent person as “in control” and ensuring that he explains the appropriate hazards control information to the tradesmen. If you want I have a very good model risk assessment document that covers construction and maintenance (essentially for road workers but with slight modification will apply to small building works). Let me have your fax number and I will send it to you. I am always happy to discuss things with you if you want to call me. Best wishes Ciaran mailto:ciaran@confinedspaces.com Tel: 0802 945017
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#12 Posted : 14 March 2001 14:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stuart Nagle Robert. I was certain that you originally asked whether CDM was applicable !! If it is only a matter of risk assessment and method statements, there are plenty available small packages that you may consider investing in to save your time and obviously the trouble you have in obtaining these off your subbies. You should be aware that if you are employing someone, even if they are a subbie, you are liable at law for ensuring their safe working on the site of your works. You obviously have responsibilities also under the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regs 1992, as ammended by the 1999 version, to carry out a risk assessment (Reg 3). I will e-mail you a PDF file that contains a load of 'generic' risk assessments which may assist you in your endeavours. Also some details on safety method statements, not directly for small building works, but the general jist will assist i'm sure. you will need Adobe Acrobat reader to open these files and use them, but this is available as a free download from the Adobe web site. Hope this helps... Stuart Nagle
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