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#41 Posted : 14 October 2005 14:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis Just as a final afterthought - What about an ACoP for enforcement activity it might help level the playing field sometimes?
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#42 Posted : 14 October 2005 16:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By Nikki HSE Inspectors are supposed to fill out an EMM form(Enforcement Management Model)every time they carry out any type of enforcement. It's supposed to ensure consistency. I believe that these are 'open' to the public. I don't think that the majority of inspectors use them though!!
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#43 Posted : 14 October 2005 18:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By PAUL UNWIN A lot of valid comment relating to experience and status, STATUS, some are a little more fortunate than others, we all learn a little each and every day, don't we?? I know I do. I was 39 before I got involved in health and safety, I paid for my NEBOSH Certificate with my redundancy pay, in the belief that it would help me into a full time Health and safety career, whoops, 1st mistake. When I gained employment, I was still a shop floor worker, still fighting management on Health Safety and welfare issues, why? because I, did not have a Bsc or a Ba or Hnd in some discipline. What I do have however, in plentiful supply, is commonsense and the discipline to back away from a task I cannot handle and pass it on to someone more qualified in that field. If H&S professionals talk down to people as it seems some do in these threads, they deserve to be prosecuted for their failures because H&S is a 360degree subject requiring input from all who may be affected by their actions. As a temp HGV driver in my past, I witnessed many incidents of poor H&S assessments because the person in the cab was really incidental. Poor assessment, be it by safety manager, RSP, MIOSH,or AIOSH, if shown to be lacking and instrumental in failing to prevent, a preventable accident, should see that person held to account. We all have a duty of care to ourselves and others. ps, I am only AIIRSM, AIOSH, but can still be prosecuted for manslaughter if I accidentally kill another person!
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#44 Posted : 14 October 2005 18:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman Ron, I call these areas "soft" because I would not be making any "hard" recommendations such as " "put this guard on that machine". Or "Don't worry about that, the risk is very low". I try to persuade directors and managers that they must install systems to assess and evaluate the risks related to tasks and employees which, if not correctly managed, may result in accidents. I will even train them on the necessary systems and best practices. But I do not have any direct decision making power. I cannot say to an MD "You will do this". I very strongly believe that OUR role is to advise, to counsel and to audit. Very often we have no discertionay powers, are outside of the hierarchical line and have little or no defined authority. The "decisional" part of safety is confined to the higher levels of management. They decide if they will accept or not whatever professional advice they have requested. If they do not accept our advice then they are up **** creek with or without a good lawyer. If the advice they have requested has been of professional standards and they have refused it, then they should accept the consequences of a bad business desision or strategy. Our role is, in this instance, to provide a professional level of advice and counsel. Sure, we intend to have an impact on systems which, depending on how they are implemented and monitored will have the most significant impact on "safety culture",allocation of resources to H&S, housekeeping, maintenance and accident prevention strategies. But there are so may factors which influence the way a management team as to whether (castrated ram ?) or not they will work to improve their safety culture that NO safety professional, however professional, competent, exeperienced or professional will gaurantee results. Bar opens in 19 minutes. Any one else want to have a go ? Merv
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#45 Posted : 17 October 2005 09:29:00(UTC)
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Posted By Cath H Do you mind if I but in with you pro’s? All this makes very interesting reading for me as I only joined IOSH early this, some interesting point through. I have been in my roll for 5 years, have the NEBOSH certificate and cert Ed, a few other bits and pieces such as Manual handling trainer and have just started my NVQ level 4. (by the way before this I was a driver trainer Car & LGV, L & defensive, still am) I have decided not to take the NEBOSH road as the exams are very academic and requires first class English which I do not have ( but you will already have notices that) My point is that nobody knows everything in safety and one of our main issues is the human aspect, we all see with a different pair of eyes (so do the inspectors), I have noticed that the inspectors only identify a limited number of issues I would never consider my self a professional; however I do consider myself a competent person especially in medium to low risk areas, and I DO USE ADVISERS. So come on give us some credit, we all have to start somewhere. by the way I too belive in common sense. Cath
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#46 Posted : 17 October 2005 11:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ron Hunter Wasn't having a go Merv, I'm only concerned that any system of "rigorous registration", as you discussed,is applied equally to all of us working in the field.
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